The quest for the liberal Rogan is so tiresome, because you can tell that the questers really think they understand the appeal of Joe Rogan, and they really, really don't. When they picture LJR, they picture a guy with big muscles staring at the camera and saying "Bangin' hot chicks is pretty based. But you know what isn't based? Means testing welfare recipients."
Rogan appeals to boys and young men because the two big institutions in their lives (education and media) think that men suck. They don't treat men and boys unfairly, oppress them, or diminish their worth as human beings, of course. They just kind of hate their guts and wish they would go away. That's the bar to clear. The Democratic establishment needs to ditch the "ugh, men" affectation if they want more young men to support them. You don't even need men to like you, you just need men to believe that you like them.
(okay it's not THE bar to clear, but it would be a really good first step)
"Rogan appeals to boys and young men because the two big institutions in their lives (education and media) think that men suck and hate their guts."
Oh FFS bring out the tired violins. Was there a dumb turn towards minor misandry in the past 10 years in some media? Sure. Did it manifest to "all education and media think men suck" and oh our boys are so repressed wah wah. No.
Rogan gained the bulk of his popularity well before he started hinting at any political affiliations. He was just a dude's dude who shot the shit with a wide swathe of usually interesting guests and didn't talk down to anyone. Only in the past 5ish years has he started really amplifying the crack-pots/right wingers, and it hasn't really expanded his audience.
This is tbh the best politics article of the month lol
And Dem establishment looking for next Joe Rogan is such a Dem establishment move (or maybe Beltway move ig?) - the substance is never an issue, it’s the message baby!!😇
First as you say, they aren’t considering that their issue positions are alienating some people.
But also, it’s not like there aren’t popular liberal podcasts out there. I’m looking at the Spotify podcast charts, and there are multiple liberal shows in the top 10 and top 50. The problem rather is that aside from Secretary Pete and Bernie Sanders and AOC, no Democratic politician seems capable of going on a long, chat podcast and seeming like a normal person. Or at least they’re not willing to risk going off script like that.
Yeah, so true - and tbf I guess politicians on both sides are like that (GOP politicians are mostly taking cues from Trump or even those nutjobs are not original as they just take cues from online right and say the craziest shit but few of them have “it”).
That said, I think the overall issue with Dem establishment and insiders is it systematically gathers one of the most risk averse ppl on the planet
This is true. I think it’s telling that Pete Buttigieg did so well in 2020 despite having no real qualifications. He’s the only non-leftist politician who seems comfortable with risk and able to talk like a normal person in a variety of media contexts. People are hungry for a non-leftist like this, but the Dem establishment seems reluctant to help politicians become this sort of candidate. I’m thinking of the Harris campaign’s postmortem on PSA, where they defended every decision and doubled down on their risk averse strategy.
Yeah, what’s frustrating is crank realignment essentially sent risk takers to GOP side - now they have the opposite issue where given a choice, they go always go for “all in”.
And I feel like the more educated ppl are, they tend to be more risk averse and educated risk takers don’t tend to choose politics as their career…
I kinda feel David Shor or Lakshya Jain should dictate the campaign tactics tbh but oh well…
They’re definitely above average, though with Shor I worry he’s too polling driven. Like yes Democrats need to move to the center to win and be realistic about public opinion, but also sounding like you’re just parroting poll-tested talking points all the time isn’t going to work. You need authenticity and vision as well to succeed in modern media (something I think the popularist faction downplays).
Yeah, like I think he prob needs to tag team w good communicator to cover.
That said, I think polling is at least useful in figuring out what not to talk about and making a decision about where you throw your allies under the bus - I may feel this way bc I’m also a data person
I think you’re a bit too has-gone-to-college-coded, tbh.
Like, you’re not obnoxiously intellectually try-harding or anything, but I find it hard to imagine someone solidly working class really relating to your brand.
I’ve never personally listened to Rogan (as an out of touch elitist I exclusively consume written media), but I think a lot of his shtick is engaging with sometimes serious ideas but from a very ordinary-schmuck perspective. There’s less of a place for background knowledge.
CHH can talk about her experience almost getting fired and being put on PIP and being so much happier as a SAHM with a blog on the side than a full-time laborer in the email mines. Would that help with the non-college educated set?
Also, it probably helps that she’s really hot and she dresses in a sexy way. CHH, if you’re reading this I hope I didn’t come across as creepy, I’m a straight woman.
Saying you don't have a face is simply false. You are clearly a crude cartoon head on a woman's body. And do you know what the kids love? Cartoon women. Another point for CHH check-mate liberals
I’m not American, and if I were I wouldn’t be a Republican. I don’t like podcasts, and if I did I doubt I would like Joe Rogan’s.
But rejoice! I have an opinion anyway. (Yes I’m a man, how could you tell?)
From what I’ve read, it seems very likely that the key to Rogan’s success (as a podcaster rather than as a ‘Republican podcaster’ is that he make listeners feel confident and powerful in themselves.
At this point, that is what Dems should be focusing on.
Dems need to focus first and foremost in feeling confident and powerful in themselves and their own ideas. You've got yahoos like Matt Yglesias basically saying that Dems should literally pander all the time and simply tell voters they will do what opinion polling says is popular, while making basically no attempt to change anyone's opinion about anything.
Almost all Democrats come off like college seniors wearing newly-bought business attire to an interview with McKinsey or an investment bank. They want to give the answer they think people want to hear instead of just actually just saying what they think. Those who don't do this--AOC, Bernie Sanders, Pritzker--are popular because people have the sense they actually believe in something, and people respect that. Nobody respects politicians trying to grade grub for votes, which is why Yglesias's "popularism" nonsense was so insane and so ineffective. Voters have always said that they hate politicians who will say anything to get elected, and then Yglesias comes along and says Dems need to make their platform "we will say anything to get elected, vote for us."
And to be clear, this goes in both directions. After the election, there was this whole thing with Dems saying maybe we can throw trans people under the bus and then voters will like us again. But back in 2020, you had Dems in the primary signing on to super lefty shit they didn't believe because they thought super lefty shit was popular because it was popular on Twitter. Just fucking say what you mean and be willing to take hits or lose votes for it. Stop trying to say "the right answer" and just say what you think.
The problem with "Liberal Joe Rogan" is Liberals don't want a Joe Rogan, they want a Glenn Beck. They don't want someone who interviewed all sides of the compass and potentially implying their side might be wrong, they want someone who calls everyone he disagrees with the second coming of Mao Zedong.
But there's a reason you probably haven't even read the name "glenn beck" in over ten years. Left wingers don't want someone who's just going to shout down establishment dem talking points and anyone who deviates slightly, they have plenty of those already. They want someone who's going to champion the specific causes of whatever movement they identify as.
A progressive mentor of mine once said "It is not enough to agree with progressives, you must agree with them in the exact same way and for the exact same reasons.
I unironically think liberals need a Glenn Beck type to go on the attack about Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, plus all the right wing pastors who've been busted for child porn.
There's a lot of material to work with, but liberals are too "cool" to want to do dozens or hundreds of episodes about it the way Glenn Beck would. Instead they just occasionally post a photo fo Elon and Epstein, or that quote from Trump about how they're friends.
Pedophilia is much more emotionally charged and strikes at primal fears every mom and dad has. And there really are priests, pastors, police officers and other right-coded people in jail for it right here in the US.
Do Republicans cynically imply their opponents are pedophiles if it suits them? Yep. Are Republicans at least as likely to molest kids as Dems? Yep. Are Republicans literally a cabal of pedophiles? No.
I assume you're a conservative who knows basically zero liberals, because in the actual reality we live in, liberals love milquetoast figures like Ezra Klein.
No, I'm a leftist who knows basically zero leftists, because in the actual cities I live in liberals are just white-flighters who live in constant terror that someone, somewhere, might be homeless and get undeserved enjoyment of things
I think it’s a compliment that you get bashed from the left and the right. You are one of the rare columnist too brave enough to speak truth no matter which side of the line it falls on. I’m a .Radical centrist”. I take the best from all sides, and if there is no best , I make up my own. Socially liberal, economically conservative… that’s pretty much me.
Have a conclave with Kara Swisher and the two podcasters who post “This F%#king Guy” videos on YouTube. That will birth the liberal Joe Rogan(s) organically.
The other thing you have going for you is that you can have your son convince The Elder to use its magic to boost your podcast’s popularity.
Good timing. Our son announced yesterday “after a long sleep, the elder is back”
When Hollywood makes a low-budget horror movie based on your family, Mr. CHH, that line is 100% guaranteed to go in the trailer.
lol a few years ago CHH and I actually wrote a horror script together!
If we could weave in the creepy neighbors who sold us our house then moved across the street with the elder we may have a winner.
All Glory to the Elder
The quest for the liberal Rogan is so tiresome, because you can tell that the questers really think they understand the appeal of Joe Rogan, and they really, really don't. When they picture LJR, they picture a guy with big muscles staring at the camera and saying "Bangin' hot chicks is pretty based. But you know what isn't based? Means testing welfare recipients."
Rogan appeals to boys and young men because the two big institutions in their lives (education and media) think that men suck. They don't treat men and boys unfairly, oppress them, or diminish their worth as human beings, of course. They just kind of hate their guts and wish they would go away. That's the bar to clear. The Democratic establishment needs to ditch the "ugh, men" affectation if they want more young men to support them. You don't even need men to like you, you just need men to believe that you like them.
(okay it's not THE bar to clear, but it would be a really good first step)
"Rogan appeals to boys and young men because the two big institutions in their lives (education and media) think that men suck and hate their guts."
Oh FFS bring out the tired violins. Was there a dumb turn towards minor misandry in the past 10 years in some media? Sure. Did it manifest to "all education and media think men suck" and oh our boys are so repressed wah wah. No.
Rogan gained the bulk of his popularity well before he started hinting at any political affiliations. He was just a dude's dude who shot the shit with a wide swathe of usually interesting guests and didn't talk down to anyone. Only in the past 5ish years has he started really amplifying the crack-pots/right wingers, and it hasn't really expanded his audience.
“Oh FFS bring out the tired violins.”
This may be the “diminishing” that DogInTheVineyard was talking about.
This is tbh the best politics article of the month lol
And Dem establishment looking for next Joe Rogan is such a Dem establishment move (or maybe Beltway move ig?) - the substance is never an issue, it’s the message baby!!😇
It’s dumb on multiple levels.
First as you say, they aren’t considering that their issue positions are alienating some people.
But also, it’s not like there aren’t popular liberal podcasts out there. I’m looking at the Spotify podcast charts, and there are multiple liberal shows in the top 10 and top 50. The problem rather is that aside from Secretary Pete and Bernie Sanders and AOC, no Democratic politician seems capable of going on a long, chat podcast and seeming like a normal person. Or at least they’re not willing to risk going off script like that.
Yeah, so true - and tbf I guess politicians on both sides are like that (GOP politicians are mostly taking cues from Trump or even those nutjobs are not original as they just take cues from online right and say the craziest shit but few of them have “it”).
That said, I think the overall issue with Dem establishment and insiders is it systematically gathers one of the most risk averse ppl on the planet
This is true. I think it’s telling that Pete Buttigieg did so well in 2020 despite having no real qualifications. He’s the only non-leftist politician who seems comfortable with risk and able to talk like a normal person in a variety of media contexts. People are hungry for a non-leftist like this, but the Dem establishment seems reluctant to help politicians become this sort of candidate. I’m thinking of the Harris campaign’s postmortem on PSA, where they defended every decision and doubled down on their risk averse strategy.
Yeah, what’s frustrating is crank realignment essentially sent risk takers to GOP side - now they have the opposite issue where given a choice, they go always go for “all in”.
And I feel like the more educated ppl are, they tend to be more risk averse and educated risk takers don’t tend to choose politics as their career…
I kinda feel David Shor or Lakshya Jain should dictate the campaign tactics tbh but oh well…
They’re definitely above average, though with Shor I worry he’s too polling driven. Like yes Democrats need to move to the center to win and be realistic about public opinion, but also sounding like you’re just parroting poll-tested talking points all the time isn’t going to work. You need authenticity and vision as well to succeed in modern media (something I think the popularist faction downplays).
Yeah, like I think he prob needs to tag team w good communicator to cover.
That said, I think polling is at least useful in figuring out what not to talk about and making a decision about where you throw your allies under the bus - I may feel this way bc I’m also a data person
Joe Rogan took about 3 election cycles to really matter. If you start now, you're on track to endorse the presidential candidate in 2036.
I think you’re a bit too has-gone-to-college-coded, tbh.
Like, you’re not obnoxiously intellectually try-harding or anything, but I find it hard to imagine someone solidly working class really relating to your brand.
I’ve never personally listened to Rogan (as an out of touch elitist I exclusively consume written media), but I think a lot of his shtick is engaging with sometimes serious ideas but from a very ordinary-schmuck perspective. There’s less of a place for background knowledge.
Would it help that I almost didn’t graduate?
Yes and "I Almost Didn't Graduate" should 100% be the title of your new podcast.
someone like conan o'brien has broader appeal than he might despite being a harvard smarto because he has stolen valor failure vibes
CHH can talk about her experience almost getting fired and being put on PIP and being so much happier as a SAHM with a blog on the side than a full-time laborer in the email mines. Would that help with the non-college educated set?
Also, it probably helps that she’s really hot and she dresses in a sexy way. CHH, if you’re reading this I hope I didn’t come across as creepy, I’m a straight woman.
Saying you don't have a face is simply false. You are clearly a crude cartoon head on a woman's body. And do you know what the kids love? Cartoon women. Another point for CHH check-mate liberals
I’m not American, and if I were I wouldn’t be a Republican. I don’t like podcasts, and if I did I doubt I would like Joe Rogan’s.
But rejoice! I have an opinion anyway. (Yes I’m a man, how could you tell?)
From what I’ve read, it seems very likely that the key to Rogan’s success (as a podcaster rather than as a ‘Republican podcaster’ is that he make listeners feel confident and powerful in themselves.
At this point, that is what Dems should be focusing on.
Dems need to focus first and foremost in feeling confident and powerful in themselves and their own ideas. You've got yahoos like Matt Yglesias basically saying that Dems should literally pander all the time and simply tell voters they will do what opinion polling says is popular, while making basically no attempt to change anyone's opinion about anything.
Almost all Democrats come off like college seniors wearing newly-bought business attire to an interview with McKinsey or an investment bank. They want to give the answer they think people want to hear instead of just actually just saying what they think. Those who don't do this--AOC, Bernie Sanders, Pritzker--are popular because people have the sense they actually believe in something, and people respect that. Nobody respects politicians trying to grade grub for votes, which is why Yglesias's "popularism" nonsense was so insane and so ineffective. Voters have always said that they hate politicians who will say anything to get elected, and then Yglesias comes along and says Dems need to make their platform "we will say anything to get elected, vote for us."
And to be clear, this goes in both directions. After the election, there was this whole thing with Dems saying maybe we can throw trans people under the bus and then voters will like us again. But back in 2020, you had Dems in the primary signing on to super lefty shit they didn't believe because they thought super lefty shit was popular because it was popular on Twitter. Just fucking say what you mean and be willing to take hits or lose votes for it. Stop trying to say "the right answer" and just say what you think.
I think TYT was originally something like this.
The problem with "Liberal Joe Rogan" is Liberals don't want a Joe Rogan, they want a Glenn Beck. They don't want someone who interviewed all sides of the compass and potentially implying their side might be wrong, they want someone who calls everyone he disagrees with the second coming of Mao Zedong.
But there's a reason you probably haven't even read the name "glenn beck" in over ten years. Left wingers don't want someone who's just going to shout down establishment dem talking points and anyone who deviates slightly, they have plenty of those already. They want someone who's going to champion the specific causes of whatever movement they identify as.
At least in my experience anyway.
A progressive mentor of mine once said "It is not enough to agree with progressives, you must agree with them in the exact same way and for the exact same reasons.
This is so true, and I say this as a leftist. I get called the devil if I'm not sufficiently agreeing with them.
I unironically think liberals need a Glenn Beck type to go on the attack about Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, plus all the right wing pastors who've been busted for child porn.
There's a lot of material to work with, but liberals are too "cool" to want to do dozens or hundreds of episodes about it the way Glenn Beck would. Instead they just occasionally post a photo fo Elon and Epstein, or that quote from Trump about how they're friends.
Isn’t that basically every #resistance Russiagate TRAITOR-IN-CHIEF type?
Pedophilia is much more emotionally charged and strikes at primal fears every mom and dad has. And there really are priests, pastors, police officers and other right-coded people in jail for it right here in the US.
Here's one just from March in a red state: https://www.kark.com/news/national-news/ex-texas-megachurch-pastor-indicted-in-oklahoma-on-child-sex-abuse-charges/
Many such cases!
Is the goal Liberal Glenn Beck, or Liberal QAnon?
Do Republicans cynically imply their opponents are pedophiles if it suits them? Yep. Are Republicans at least as likely to molest kids as Dems? Yep. Are Republicans literally a cabal of pedophiles? No.
I assume you're a conservative who knows basically zero liberals, because in the actual reality we live in, liberals love milquetoast figures like Ezra Klein.
No, I'm a leftist who knows basically zero leftists, because in the actual cities I live in liberals are just white-flighters who live in constant terror that someone, somewhere, might be homeless and get undeserved enjoyment of things
Here for it! Maybe you’ll even get some new shoes out of winning 👡👡
Tell your husband I promise to listen to your podcast if he lets you buy the expensive microphone
I think it’s a compliment that you get bashed from the left and the right. You are one of the rare columnist too brave enough to speak truth no matter which side of the line it falls on. I’m a .Radical centrist”. I take the best from all sides, and if there is no best , I make up my own. Socially liberal, economically conservative… that’s pretty much me.
Did you just organically create the term "turbopawg" and use it for the first time in the English language?
I’ve literally thought this already
You have my vote
Ok done. Next. Start a podcast. Stop scaring her Mr ChH. She needs a Mike!
CHH To Do List:
Have a conclave with Kara Swisher and the two podcasters who post “This F%#king Guy” videos on YouTube. That will birth the liberal Joe Rogan(s) organically.