Ironically, Walsh was probably just doing what Jeremiah more-or-less recommends as the way to make it as an opinion writer - bashing out yet another hot take, keeping the content flowing, with a focus on maximizing engagement rather than exercising craft, taste, discretion, or judgement.
I had no idea how productive my Substack commenting habit is until I listened to Jeremiah. I guess I too must be a natural entrepreneur with the drive to just go do things. And of course women are attracted to male productivity and initiative. It’s a well known fact that the more frantically a man posts on Reddit, the less likely he is to be single. My girlfriend is never more impressed with me than when I spend all evening arguing with people on this platform.
I love that Jeremiah's advice is just the opposite of Paul Rudd's Kunu surf instructor's advice in Forgetting Sarah Marshall: "You're doing too much. Do less."
Nope, you're doing too little. Do more.
I've had a similar realization at times in my life, that I'd feel really depressed if all I did was consume, rather than produce. Another dimension I've noticed is, even with "work" or production, a difference between linear, straightforward "do the thing and move on to the next thing" work, vs open-ended creative production.
Sometimes I wonder if I got predisposed away from creative pursuits, by getting really into acing linear, pre-defined challenges as a kid: in school, it was worksheets and quizzes; at home it was side scrolling video games. I remember hating open-ended "projects" or art class, because I didn't know what I had to do to succeed. I definitely think I had an innate preference for those more straightforward tasks (even very hard ones) where I always knew what to do next, and what success would look like; but I think that years of grinding worksheets and video games definitely wore those neutral grooves too deep into my psyche. Even reading, or going on a hike, is like this: you just turn the page, or just take the next step, till you're done, and enjoy the ride.
Infinite doomscrolling, or tiktok swiping, is also just "do the next thing" but much much worse. Anyways I think it's good advice for people to break out of that and try to produce things, and be creative.
One depressing thing for single guys struggling to find a partner, I'm sure, is to notice that tons of married people... just Netflix and chill together. They laze around and happily enjoy consuming stuff, plus they have companionship and sex all the time. Kind of like how when you're applying for jobs, it feels like you need to prove you're God's gift to SaaS product management, optimized since birth to deliver stakeholder value; yet everyone you know WITH a job is kinda mediocre and normal, and their employers seem fine with it. I guess to those guys I'd say: there's a lot more girls than employers out there, and once you're together, you'll have much lower odds of being let go than at a job. But it's still worth being your best self, even if your spouse doesn't require it to stay with you.
I think CHH would like Way of the Superior Man, by David Deida. It's a bit woo, but speaks to deeper truths about masculine and feminine without saying stupid reactionary crap. It was released in 1997. He'd probably get lots of grief for it today.
If he were a grifter he could've gone the Jordan Peterson route, but he's a very private person who doesn't feel the need to self aggrandize.
The problem with this is that it only accounts for one particular failure mode, when in reality, there are a variety of reasons why dating is hard for men, men are lonely, etc., some of which have nothing to do with whether they “produce”.
In my case, I’m someone with a literal STEM PhD who’s published papers. I play piano. I own a classical music Discord server and organized events for it. Was the problem for me because I didn’t “produce”? I was lonely more because of my neurodivergence, the gap between my interests vs. those of my peers, the trauma of my upbringing (lower-middle class, broken family, but in an academic environment full of affluent stable 2-parent families), etc. My low self-esteem came from comparing myself and my shortcomings to the most elite, outstanding students (and later, professionals) of America who had significantly more privilege than I did, and thinking that I wasn't "producing" enough compared to them, which isn't helped by these sorts of narratives. Sure, I’m in a happier place now and just started a relationship, but that took years of introspection, therapy, etc. and being softer on myself, not harder.
I realize that I may not be the target audience, but CHH and Jeremiah presented this as general advice. I think I am an example of someone who doesn’t fit the general narrative of “why men are struggling”. It’s not all because we’re a bunch of lazy slobs! I thought this discussion was a bit low-common-denominator and overgeneralized.
If what you’re producing isn’t attractive or readily visible/digestible to women in a short form like a dating app - it’s pretty nil in today’s environment. I don’t know anyone who is meeting in real life anymore and I’m surrounded by very well off people in NYC and SF.
The men I know getting the most traction in these two cities seemingly have no correlation with effort, time invested, or production.
Like many apostles of the Protestant work ethic, Jeremiah sets up a false binary between easy-target forms of leisure like video games and Instagram and “productive activity” that “creates value for others”. This dichotomy leaves out many worthwhile activities that fall into neither category and but nevertheless provide fulfillment, such as travel, spending time in nature, enjoying good food, indulging intellectual curiosity, appreciating art, and being with friends and family.
I'm a proponent of a work ethic of some sort (not sure what brand it is?) and I recognize that "false binary" as an oversimplification to make a valid point.
But you're right about all the other "worthwhile activities" that don't seem like "productivity that creates value for others" but are clearly not "wasted time" or "empty consumption." Hunter and Amory Lovins wrote a fascinating book ages ago called Natural Capitalism that did a good job of identifying hidden costs of production (ecological costs, obviously, if you are familiar with the work of either of these persons) and the hidden value of human activity that is not easily measured economically.
If there were a "work" ethic that highly valued those things that Jeremiah doesn't seem to consider "productive"—like travel, nature time, indulging curiosity, appreciating art, generally doing things that replenish the human spirit, would you consider it?
I think if you make the definition of “work ethic” so expansive that it includes hiking, going to an art gallery, and getting a beer with my brother you’ve stretched it beyond all meaning.
I'm not including all those things as "work", I'm espousing an ethic that values work while also valuing the things that make us healthy and capable persons. A work ethic that doesn't make non-work things into targets to shoot down or distractions to eliminate, but one that acknowledges the holistic nature of being human.
Your next push-back can be "So going to an art gallery or getting a beer with my brother only has value if it makes me a better worker when I do show up for work?"
Some folks hold that view, and while I disagree, it's better than the grimmer alternative. At least that boss will appreciate me taking time off to hit the slopes on a powder day. ;-)
I'm trying to describe a work ethic that values the satisfaction of "good work done well" while also putting work in a healthier relationship with all the rest of "a good life lived well." Maybe there's a whole set of ethics to work through here, but I'm trying to keep it simple...
Yes, I have no objections to that. My critique was aimed at Jeremiah’s comments in the episode which implied a binary between productive activity that adds value to others and wasted time. I’m not criticizing the work ethic per se.
My blue yeti also sounds kinda shitty! I am replying here to follow this thread in the hopes that a knowledgeable reply guy (or CHH herself) comes along to explain how to make it sound good.
If it's sounding like CHH here, I might try turning the knob labelled "Gain" down. (Agreed that the son is the most likely culprit here). Whatever software you use to record should have a levels indicator that can help you find the right level. Usually there's a red zone on the indicator, and if you're regularly hitting it when speaking, you turn your gain down (or move the mic further from you) until you're out of the red.
If that doesn't fix your problem, I'm sorry. I'm going off ancient knowledge from when I did a little bit of audio in high school.
The part where Johnson mentions that if you approach dating willing to take action and put in time really speaks to me. Found the love of my life by buckling down and actively dating people with the intent of finding someone to marry. About 6 months of it and dating probably a dozen women, I found my wife. It was the first time I really decided I didnt want to wait around for the right one, I was going to actively try and find them.
Matt Walsh projecting insecurity I think is really on the money!
tbh i feel like a lot of manosphere hatred/mockery is either that or graft (and they are not mutually exclusive lol)
Ironically, Walsh was probably just doing what Jeremiah more-or-less recommends as the way to make it as an opinion writer - bashing out yet another hot take, keeping the content flowing, with a focus on maximizing engagement rather than exercising craft, taste, discretion, or judgement.
I think you mean grift, not graft.
Graft is bribery.
Yes, thank you lol
I didn’t even realize I had this typo until you pointed out lolll
I had no idea how productive my Substack commenting habit is until I listened to Jeremiah. I guess I too must be a natural entrepreneur with the drive to just go do things. And of course women are attracted to male productivity and initiative. It’s a well known fact that the more frantically a man posts on Reddit, the less likely he is to be single. My girlfriend is never more impressed with me than when I spend all evening arguing with people on this platform.
I love that Jeremiah's advice is just the opposite of Paul Rudd's Kunu surf instructor's advice in Forgetting Sarah Marshall: "You're doing too much. Do less."
Nope, you're doing too little. Do more.
I've had a similar realization at times in my life, that I'd feel really depressed if all I did was consume, rather than produce. Another dimension I've noticed is, even with "work" or production, a difference between linear, straightforward "do the thing and move on to the next thing" work, vs open-ended creative production.
Sometimes I wonder if I got predisposed away from creative pursuits, by getting really into acing linear, pre-defined challenges as a kid: in school, it was worksheets and quizzes; at home it was side scrolling video games. I remember hating open-ended "projects" or art class, because I didn't know what I had to do to succeed. I definitely think I had an innate preference for those more straightforward tasks (even very hard ones) where I always knew what to do next, and what success would look like; but I think that years of grinding worksheets and video games definitely wore those neutral grooves too deep into my psyche. Even reading, or going on a hike, is like this: you just turn the page, or just take the next step, till you're done, and enjoy the ride.
Infinite doomscrolling, or tiktok swiping, is also just "do the next thing" but much much worse. Anyways I think it's good advice for people to break out of that and try to produce things, and be creative.
One depressing thing for single guys struggling to find a partner, I'm sure, is to notice that tons of married people... just Netflix and chill together. They laze around and happily enjoy consuming stuff, plus they have companionship and sex all the time. Kind of like how when you're applying for jobs, it feels like you need to prove you're God's gift to SaaS product management, optimized since birth to deliver stakeholder value; yet everyone you know WITH a job is kinda mediocre and normal, and their employers seem fine with it. I guess to those guys I'd say: there's a lot more girls than employers out there, and once you're together, you'll have much lower odds of being let go than at a job. But it's still worth being your best self, even if your spouse doesn't require it to stay with you.
Every time I see a CHH audio post I am pavlov’d into expecting a Trump impression
I can't believe I didn't do a Trump impression in this episode. Missed opportunity.
Need 70 minutes of Trump talking to neolibs
I think CHH would like Way of the Superior Man, by David Deida. It's a bit woo, but speaks to deeper truths about masculine and feminine without saying stupid reactionary crap. It was released in 1997. He'd probably get lots of grief for it today.
If he were a grifter he could've gone the Jordan Peterson route, but he's a very private person who doesn't feel the need to self aggrandize.
I think CHH and Jeremiah are being over-simplistic about the problem. What they said reminds me of this Cracked article called “6 Harsh Truths That Will Make You a Better Person” (https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person).
The problem with this is that it only accounts for one particular failure mode, when in reality, there are a variety of reasons why dating is hard for men, men are lonely, etc., some of which have nothing to do with whether they “produce”.
In my case, I’m someone with a literal STEM PhD who’s published papers. I play piano. I own a classical music Discord server and organized events for it. Was the problem for me because I didn’t “produce”? I was lonely more because of my neurodivergence, the gap between my interests vs. those of my peers, the trauma of my upbringing (lower-middle class, broken family, but in an academic environment full of affluent stable 2-parent families), etc. My low self-esteem came from comparing myself and my shortcomings to the most elite, outstanding students (and later, professionals) of America who had significantly more privilege than I did, and thinking that I wasn't "producing" enough compared to them, which isn't helped by these sorts of narratives. Sure, I’m in a happier place now and just started a relationship, but that took years of introspection, therapy, etc. and being softer on myself, not harder.
I realize that I may not be the target audience, but CHH and Jeremiah presented this as general advice. I think I am an example of someone who doesn’t fit the general narrative of “why men are struggling”. It’s not all because we’re a bunch of lazy slobs! I thought this discussion was a bit low-common-denominator and overgeneralized.
If what you’re producing isn’t attractive or readily visible/digestible to women in a short form like a dating app - it’s pretty nil in today’s environment. I don’t know anyone who is meeting in real life anymore and I’m surrounded by very well off people in NYC and SF.
The men I know getting the most traction in these two cities seemingly have no correlation with effort, time invested, or production.
Like many apostles of the Protestant work ethic, Jeremiah sets up a false binary between easy-target forms of leisure like video games and Instagram and “productive activity” that “creates value for others”. This dichotomy leaves out many worthwhile activities that fall into neither category and but nevertheless provide fulfillment, such as travel, spending time in nature, enjoying good food, indulging intellectual curiosity, appreciating art, and being with friends and family.
I'm a proponent of a work ethic of some sort (not sure what brand it is?) and I recognize that "false binary" as an oversimplification to make a valid point.
But you're right about all the other "worthwhile activities" that don't seem like "productivity that creates value for others" but are clearly not "wasted time" or "empty consumption." Hunter and Amory Lovins wrote a fascinating book ages ago called Natural Capitalism that did a good job of identifying hidden costs of production (ecological costs, obviously, if you are familiar with the work of either of these persons) and the hidden value of human activity that is not easily measured economically.
If there were a "work" ethic that highly valued those things that Jeremiah doesn't seem to consider "productive"—like travel, nature time, indulging curiosity, appreciating art, generally doing things that replenish the human spirit, would you consider it?
I think if you make the definition of “work ethic” so expansive that it includes hiking, going to an art gallery, and getting a beer with my brother you’ve stretched it beyond all meaning.
I'm not including all those things as "work", I'm espousing an ethic that values work while also valuing the things that make us healthy and capable persons. A work ethic that doesn't make non-work things into targets to shoot down or distractions to eliminate, but one that acknowledges the holistic nature of being human.
Your next push-back can be "So going to an art gallery or getting a beer with my brother only has value if it makes me a better worker when I do show up for work?"
Some folks hold that view, and while I disagree, it's better than the grimmer alternative. At least that boss will appreciate me taking time off to hit the slopes on a powder day. ;-)
I'm trying to describe a work ethic that values the satisfaction of "good work done well" while also putting work in a healthier relationship with all the rest of "a good life lived well." Maybe there's a whole set of ethics to work through here, but I'm trying to keep it simple...
Yes, I have no objections to that. My critique was aimed at Jeremiah’s comments in the episode which implied a binary between productive activity that adds value to others and wasted time. I’m not criticizing the work ethic per se.
Please buy a Shure SM7B microphone. :-)
I think her gain is just set too high; her mic itself is probably fine.
Yeah it’s a blue yeti, it’s pretty good. I think my son fiddled with it
My blue yeti also sounds kinda shitty! I am replying here to follow this thread in the hopes that a knowledgeable reply guy (or CHH herself) comes along to explain how to make it sound good.
It sounded really good on the previous episode, so I’m assuming it wasn’t the mic
Sorry didn't mean to insult the mic, just that I think you're right about your son fiddling with the settings or knobs on it.
If it's sounding like CHH here, I might try turning the knob labelled "Gain" down. (Agreed that the son is the most likely culprit here). Whatever software you use to record should have a levels indicator that can help you find the right level. Usually there's a red zone on the indicator, and if you're regularly hitting it when speaking, you turn your gain down (or move the mic further from you) until you're out of the red.
If that doesn't fix your problem, I'm sorry. I'm going off ancient knowledge from when I did a little bit of audio in high school.
The part where Johnson mentions that if you approach dating willing to take action and put in time really speaks to me. Found the love of my life by buckling down and actively dating people with the intent of finding someone to marry. About 6 months of it and dating probably a dozen women, I found my wife. It was the first time I really decided I didnt want to wait around for the right one, I was going to actively try and find them.