lol when I was a kid, the neighbor kid ran out of his house and interrupted our freeze-tag or whatever to breathlessly say: I think my mom and dad are fucking! Obviously we all went in and stood outside their door and listened. They really were fucking. Randy was really taking Sylvia to Pound Town. And she was the fucking mayor! In retrospect, this was clearly elder abuse and not child abuse
Edit: Randy was born and bred Jersey though we lived in Indiana. Imagine a dude with a belly goin', "youse kids go play outside!" Honestly not sure if that makes that story better or worse.
There's plenty of books for men in the bookstore, you just have to come hang out with me in the books-about-shipwrecks section and presidential biography section!
Right, exactly. Are young men not reading Lord of the Rings anymore? I also enjoyed the Forgotten Realms Drizzt Dark Elf books, and I've also read about 20 Star Wars books.
Those are like 20-30 years old at this point. The IP books like Dungeons and Dragons / Dragonlance / Forgotten Realms and Star Trek / Star Wars really seems to have slowed down / disappeared now that you mention it.
Hell, fairly niche IPs like Shadowrun and Battletech probably put out over a hundred novels over the years, now you hardly see that sort of thing. There may have been 100 Robotech novels.
Yeah, I think RA Salvatore is still writing, but those books are indeed old now.
I think many readers of Star Wars books have been repeatedly burned by the books being declared non-canonical. I'm not just talking about how the whole Thrawn storyline from the 90s (Zahn?) got thrown out, they also threw out a large percentage of the stuff that was written between the prequels and the 2015-2019 movies. I found it demoralizing anyway.
My favorite Star Wars book was "Kenobi", which had a "Firefly" vibe to it and described Obi Wan's life after he fled to Tatooine. Very space western, and very enjoyable and human tale.
"The latest Dungeons & Dragons series from R.A. Salvatore begins with The Finest Edge of Twilight, coming this October!
The daughter of legendary Dungeons & Dragons adventurers Drizzt Do'Urden and Catti-brie fights to build her own legacy in a brand-new series from R. A. Salvatore.
My name is not "Drizzt's daughter." Breezy Do'Urden is more than just the heir of legendary heroes. For the past decade, she has dedicated herself to the study of combat, magic, and more recently, to the elusive Way of Shadow, honing her body and mind into a keen and singular weapon."
I mostly stopped reading those books about 18 years ago, but I kind of want to read that one. I think I’ve read 20 or so books in that universe. It’s really a great series of books and universe. I always loved the whole system of how the houses have to be overthrown perfectly and if one member survives the overthrowing house is punished.
I also remember thinking Salvatore did a great job transporting the reader into magical worlds. The books were great escapes. I’m particularly remembering one book that focused just on Regis the halfling and his life in (I think) a thieves’ guild in this southern seaside town. It had this nice image of the swashbuckling era, the age of sail.
"My favorite Star Wars book was "Kenobi", which had a "Firefly" vibe to it and described Obi Wan's life after he fled to Tatooine. Very space western, and very enjoyable and human tale."
Probably better than the show.
I keep meaning to pick up some of Babylon 5 books, apparently some of them really add a lot to the show, particularly the ones about Londo and Bester.
Just googled, looks like there are a few Star Trek Strange New Worlds novels, so it's not a completely dead publishing genre, but it has many fewer novels than Babylon 5 or even Stargate, which were pretty niche shows.
The B5 books are good (and canon). The Centauri trilogy (by Peter David) is my favorite but I like all three. Just don't accidentally buy the novelizations of the movies as younger me did when I hadn't seen all of them yet in the pre DVD age.
Love that my fellow girlies are keeping the bookstore business alive with their romantasy, but I will be right there with you in the dadlit section everyday. Have you read The Wager by David Grann?
Yes! It's on my bookshelf 5 feet from me right now. I have read 4 books about shipwrecks/age of sail in the last year: The Wager by David Grann, Left For Dead by Eric Jay Dolin (shipwreck in Falkland Islands during War of 1812), Save Our Souls by Matthew Pearl (shipwreck in Midway Islands in 1888), and The Wide Wide Sea by Hampton Sides (covers the third voyage of James Cook, the one ending with his death at the hands of Hawaiians; I highly recommend this book to get a deeper/more nuanced appreciation of Cook's 3rd and final voyage). I also have 4 others on my shelf in the queue.
The Wager was outstanding though. I take it you have read it too?
Two Years Before the Mast by Richard Henry Dana - You want to know what it was like on a ship in the early 1800s, without going through Moby Dick, that’s your book.
Yes, and The Wide, Wide Sea as well. I'll have to check out the others. For a fictionalized account, I really enjoyed The Terror by Dan Simmons, though I actually think the TV version did an even better job with it (and handled the female characters a bit more respectfully IMO).
Nice! I just checked my bookshelf and I have the following books about shipwrecks/ocean voyages in my queue not yet read: Mayflower by Nathaniel Philbrick, Black Flags, Blue Waters by Eric Jay Dolin (about pirates), In the Heart of the Sea by Nathaniel Philbrick (whaling disaster), In the Kingdom of Ice by Hampton Sides (abandoning ship in polar ice), Icebound by Andrea Pitzer about Danish sailor Barents in the 1500s after whom the Barents Sea is named, and Over the Edge of the World by Lawrence Bergeen about Magellan's circumnavigation. I also have various books about the wild west, frontier America, gold rush etc. Have read "Worst Journey in the World" about trip to the South Pole. Very enjoyable genre and I believe overwhelmingly read by men. I'll have to check out The Terror.
Screenshotting this for ideas to read next. You might also enjoy Astoria, about the efforts to settle the PNW (or at least to extend a fur trading empire to it) financed by John Jacob Astor soon after the Lewis and Clark expedition. Lots of incredible life and death struggles for survival, both at sea and overland. Plus Mutiny on the Bounty, and if you're into fiction, the Master and Commander series (of which the first 3 make a fine trilogy) is just the best.
I have actually read The Wager and The Wide, Wide Sea and those are both great. Many of those I listed I have not yet read but are in my queue. I'm confident I'll enjoy them.
I'll take note of those! I do like that exact kind of stuff.
Thanks for the recs! Definitely a typically "male" genre, but this is why gender stereotypes are just stereotypes, not iron rules! I am feminine in most every way, I like to cook, knit, and bake, but when I want to curl up with a good book, I reach for maritime disasters not bodice-rippers.
At 63 I can say this: We were only interrupted once by our daughter, then 14, with a knock on our bedroom door. The way we said "later" tipped her off and we heard her running down the hallway shouting "gross," but laughing. We were laughing too.
With three kids, I think our record's pretty good.
Young people are so contemptuous of “stomp clap hey” and I find it very irritating. I know they have a life-threatening allergy to earnestness and don’t even seem to *like* music in the way that every other recent generation has, but do they listen to a single thing that involves an actual musical instrument, or even just a human voice that hasn’t been so filtered through software that it wouldn’t be unrecognizable live? “Stomp clap hey” doesn’t have to be your taste, but it’s like a hobo drinking Purel going on a tear about how margaritas are basic. Okay man. You’re clearly a person of refined tastes.
Yeah I know it's partially youth nostalgia but the kind of "folksy bluegrass revival" stuff that got so popular from like 2008-2014 was mostly fun, solid music. Not stuff I'd put with the classics but man I find the whole "ugh cringe, everything has to be ironic and sarcastic" tone of GenZ just extremely irritating; what a bummer way to spend your young years.
Even their GenX parents had their earnest moments, especially about broken homes (the topic of so many GenX era music and movies).
Also like…what do you *actually* like, then? Used to be, if you wanted to make fun of how lame other people’s tastes were, you’d be passionate about an alternative and could feel superior not just for hating x but also by being into y instead. They do not seem to be doing that. All they have is mockery and problematizing, but I have yet to see any really passion for something else. I guess because passion requires earnestness.
I know, right! GenX has the reputation for being cynical slackers and all, but, we always had something we LIKED along something we hated. “I can’t STAND Motley Crue but I love Iron Maiden!” “I can’t stand that 70’s dad rock but I love punk and goth!” “Fuck all y’all, I love my Bach and Beethoven!”
At least the terminally online and loud Zoomers seem to just hate everything. We hate sex. We hate music. We hate people who love their pets. We hate Wal-Mart. What a dreary mindset. (Sure, it’s fine to hate WalMart, but what do you *like?*) I wonder how much overlap there is in the Venn diagram of “chronic complainers and I hate everything people” and “I don’t have any friends, waaah.”
This is what happens when everything becomes some sort of weird morality play. There’s a risk in liking anything because there’s always someone out there to gleefully tell you how the thing you like is “problematic.” Nobody ever claims that hating something is problematic.
Terminally online & loud is key. Most people I know love loads of things. It's like Silent Generation dismissing boomers as hippies when that was a vocal minority
As a Zoomer who hates the Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeroes style of music, I feel kind of obligated to respond to this. My favorite genre of music is drum and bass, a subgenre of EDM characterized by fast-tempo (usually 175 BPM) breakbeats with heavy bass lines. It's pretty popular among people who play my sport, which is where I first came into contact with it. I suspect it isn't the sort of music you will like judging by your previous comments, but I seriously and earnestly enjoy listening to it, and I actually got into DJing because of it.
I continue to unironically enjoy Mumford and Sons, and a bit of the Lumineers. Also Nickel Creek, although that’s just modern bluegrass, not “stomp clap hey”.
It WAS a weird little fad, if we’re being honest. Came and went seemingly out of nowhere.
It did get old when every song had the stomp clap hey… especially when they were all then in car commercials.. but I did love a few! Esp Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros! A great 70s hippie cult music vibe. And I LOVE Jade’s voice. She did have a terrible drug addiction. I think she’s clean now.
I'm not so entirely sure it's exclusively young people (gen Z) that are the biggest haters on stomp clap, most of the pushback I've seen from it come from my millennial cohort.
The hate is a bit much, but I get it in some ways. I had a big Mumford phase, I was even a fan of that Edward Sharpe song until it hit a saturation point that it turned to annoyance.
I think it's the lack of earnestness that some people have an issue with too. The guy from Edward Sharpe totally recreated himself from hip hop > punk infused indie > landing on the money maker with Edward Sharpe. I'm sure plenty of people had negative experiences with dudes who looked like the Edward Sharpe character that probably tint their view of it. IMO that was the male manipulator archetype in 2012.
That's RW social media in a nutshell; declaring "XYZ is going to ENRAGE THE LIBS!" .no libs respond but they all chuckle amongst themselves regardless.
Arguably, all the genuinely "sensitive" libs decamped for Bluesky or elsewhere, so right-wing Twitter has no choice but to make up a lib to get mad about
I suppose next we'll hear about conservatives talking about how all of our economy is a con to keep the working man down so the "socialists" at the top can make bank by cutting regulations and get more tax cuts.
This is in line with a very Republican relative of mine who was telling me a few years ago that he actually agrees with Black Lives Matter and thinks that Black people really are treated worse and that racism didn't really end after Lincoln or MLK. I was simply shocked, almost unable to speak. Then he went on to say that the best way to rectify the situation was to vote Republican because Democrats want to keep Blacks down by keeping them on the "welfare plantation" but Republicans know that teaching them about hard work and respect for the system will turn things around for them - he also added that Ron DeSantis might have been sent by God.
Has anyone here seen the surreal short film Cash App made with Chalamet where he tries to buy rare fruits and vegetables but the vendor only accepts non-monetary barter? Yes this is a real thing
The “no sex with kids in the house” thing seems like the latest metastasis of the “children must be segregated from normal life” thing. Another one I’ve seen a lot of is online women losing their shit over the idea of beer being served (for the adults, obviously) at a kids’ birthday party. Like we need to treat all adult activities like sex offenders - illegal within 500 feet of a minor.
And that “let’s keep kids insulated from normal life” always results in kids not knowing how to behave once they are adults and actually expected to participate in normal life. Then their coworkers write in to Alison Green’s column.
That, or people don’t want to have kids if that’s what they are going to be enduring for the next 18+ years. So much ink and so many pixels have been spilled on why people don’t want kids, or want more than one, but I bet you my last buck that “compulsory intensive helicopter parenting” contributes.
What’s especially tiresome is that it’s coming from both directions - you’ve got the “children should never exist in public” anti-kid crowd AND the “shield children from any exposure to the public because it’s abuse” hyper-helicopters.
Yes, I agree it’s tiresome! Especially coming from all directions. I don’t have kids and in fact never wanted them, but I think kids SHOULD exist in public. Because, get this, they need to be TAUGHT how to behave in public. No, we don’t run in the grocery store, that might hurt someone. No, we don’t go up and pet strange dogs without permission. Etc. Kids need to be part of the public, and they need to be held to standards. That’s how you raise adults that don’t act like they belong in the chimp enclosure at the zoo.
Reminds me of how a lot of people are acting like parents brining their kids to breweries is some new thing. Which is wild because I’m not young by any means and I grew up going to breweries with my parents. Because at least where I live unlike bars you can actually bring a kid to brewery so it’s hardly shocking.
It's sad seeing all the complaints about kids at breweries. As long as they're not destructive it's cute seeing them enjoy some pretzel bites and play giant Jenga.
1) How are you supposed to have a second kid if you're not allowed to have sex when they're in the house? They're always there.
2) Are external walls made out of a magic substance that makes it OK? What if they're in the garden? Or the neighbour's house? Or is that still too close?
I opened the link for the Edward Sharpe and Magnetic Zeros clip and while some of the commenters were normal, there was a shocking number being needlessly racist. While Twitter was never good, it’s really gone downhill because of all the extremists.
And yet, people seem to be more ok being around that kind of extreme racism than BlueSky woke scolds, which continues to mystify me. And I say that as someone who doesn’t like BlueSky wokescolds at all.
Goon books: anyone from the pre-internet era remember that thing called the “supermarket checkout stand” where you could get the National Enquirer, Good Housekeeping, candy bars, and “paper back book with cover featuring busty lady doing backbend in the arms of a long-haired pirate/Viking/highwayman, entitled Love’s [Adjective] [Noun]?” Nothing to see here but romantasy has taken the place of bodice rippers and you can’t buy candy bars in bookstores. (also why “goon” books?)
Sorority girls: do blue haired lesbians have a thing for clunky white sneakers? Do resentful incels?
Sex with kids in the house: I hope this is just very niche shut-in zoomer discourse. If not, then people need to rediscover how to use the locks that are on every master bedroom door. And master the fine art of kicking the kids out into the back yard or at least letting them have a little screen time (back in the day it was Saturday morning cartoons!).
Timothee Chalamet: is putting Timothee in an ad a maneuver along the same lines of baiting raccoon traps with fish meal? “I swear, Jason, chicks see Timothee Chalamet, we can reel ‘em in, no matter what the product actually is.” = one ad exec to the other
What I miss by the checkout is the Weekly World News. It was the non-celebrity tabloid. I used to grab a copy and a pint of ice cream after a rough week at work. Remember Bat Boy? And headlines like "Ten Senators are Space Aliens." Sometimes they just put a lurid spin on real news, like about licking toads to get high, but mostly it was made up. I guess it wouldn't be funny nowadays since it seems like so much of the news is made up, or it's straight reporting but it's about made-up stuff. I don't recall that there was anything particularly political about it, that for example all the senators who were space aliens were from the same party, but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough.
Re: mastering the fine art of kicking the kids out into the back yard or at least letting them have a little screen time - still doesn’t work. They come in because there were too many bugs, or because they got thirsty, or because they want to do sidewalk chalk and they can’t remember where it is. Or they pause the TV and run upstairs because they realize they’re hungry, or…
I cannot have enjoyable sex when I’m in “mom mode,” and having awake kids on the premises means mom mode.
I remember someone mentioning it was common to drink hose water because you literally weren’t allowed back in the house while playing outside. Didn’t quite get it as a kid/young adult, fully get it as a parent.
Can we at least get some specificity on the “bunch of people” who said that you shouldn’t have sex in your house? Like what gen are they, are they men or women, is it left or right coded, etc.
Also, reading a book older than a year old counts as reading. That's always been the vast majority of reading that people do. You don't only have to read new releases.
Yeah 100%. Multiple things can be true: (1) it is increasingly hard for men to get published in literary fiction (it is also hard for women to get published if their book isn’t oppression porn) (2) going into bookstores is kind of annoying these days because like 1/3 of the shelves are the “America is racist” section and 1/3 of the shelves are the “yay communism” shelves (3) there are literally hundreds of years of perfectly good books you can read that aren’t products of the current ultra-woke publishing regime, plus zillions of genre fiction books that aren’t subject to those rules, so maybe get over yourself?
I am neither a woman or a published author, I’m just going off what Kat Rosenfeld and Phoebe Maltz-Bovy say (that a woman can’t publish a book about anything without making it about herself).
Ugh posted twice, sorry. Also Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie, Han Kang, Laila Lalami and many others. I like the Feminine Chaos pod, but their dismissal of women's literature is unfair & inaccurate.
I think there is a value to physical bookstores that a lot of people are missing out on because of these trends. Most obviously, to buy a book online you have to already know it exists.
I like buying e-books, for many reasons (not least portability). However, one of the magical things about physical bookstores is the serendipity factor. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve gone in to a bookstore looking for a particular book and come out with a different book, or sometimes an armload of different books. It’s harder to get that thrill of discovery online.
There’s subreddits and Goodreads lists for “If I like Book X, what else will I like?” Heck you can even ask on fanfic lists and non-book-related forums. “I like this book or this author or this genre. Recommend me something!” Or even “Read any good books lately? What are they?” The beauty of apps like Libby is you don’t have to actually shell out for the book. You can get virtual library books now! (Or just walk on down to the library and get a dead tree version. You don’t like it? No harm no foul. That’s what libraries are for.)
Running a bookstore seems to be a pretty low-margin operation. Our local bookstore owner must be a pretty smart cookie if she has stayed in business this long despite Amazon. Bookstores are going to stock what sells, but independent bookstores are happy to order stuff for you. If there's something the guys want to see, they should go into an independent bookstore and ask for it instead of whining.
That guy is right, they were complaining about how frivolous and degenerate sorority rush videos are a year or two ago. "Why are women even bothering with college if this is how they spend their time?" type stuff.
That was before conservatism (c) took ownership of all attractive women.
Just to be clear, if you are an attractive women (say 7/10 or above), you are only allowed to be conservative now. All liberal women are blue haired lesbians!
I thank God I was in a sorority in the mid 80s where the most complicated thing we had to do was clap on beat and sing songs as the rushees exited the house. We performed SKITS, for God's sake, during the rush party. But yes, all the SEC girls performing a hugely choreographed routine always show up about now, Bama Rush videos aren't far behind.
I never was in a sorority, but my mom and aunt both were, and it was the same for them - they sang songs, and I think they also all had to wear a certain color or something. That’s it. Those choreographed routines remind me of the “professionalization” of youth sports and the like. You can’t just be in a sorority for the friends and the connections and the built-in fun, you have to know how to do a choreographed dance. It’s very “Mommy and Daddy have paid for dance lessons since I was five” stuff.
Many Such Takes is EXACTLY the amount of the internets that I need
lol when I was a kid, the neighbor kid ran out of his house and interrupted our freeze-tag or whatever to breathlessly say: I think my mom and dad are fucking! Obviously we all went in and stood outside their door and listened. They really were fucking. Randy was really taking Sylvia to Pound Town. And she was the fucking mayor! In retrospect, this was clearly elder abuse and not child abuse
Edit: Randy was born and bred Jersey though we lived in Indiana. Imagine a dude with a belly goin', "youse kids go play outside!" Honestly not sure if that makes that story better or worse.
Hey Randy and Sylvia, do you know that you are still being talked about today because you were fucking that one time? 😂
Shhh! If Randy hears you he’ll get a boner
Cuz they stopped when they heard us giggling 🤭
There's plenty of books for men in the bookstore, you just have to come hang out with me in the books-about-shipwrecks section and presidential biography section!
(in Monty Python voice)
Rome, Rome, Rome, Rome, Rome, Rome, Rome, baked beans, Rome, Rome, Rome, eggs and Rome, that hasn't got much Rome in it.
I DON'T LIKE ROME
I just rewatched the "what have the Romans ever done for us?" clip on YouTube from Life of Brian.
Also the section with books with dragons and elves and swords on the cover that AREN'T about fucking them, just take that right turn at Albuquerque!
Right, exactly. Are young men not reading Lord of the Rings anymore? I also enjoyed the Forgotten Realms Drizzt Dark Elf books, and I've also read about 20 Star Wars books.
Those are like 20-30 years old at this point. The IP books like Dungeons and Dragons / Dragonlance / Forgotten Realms and Star Trek / Star Wars really seems to have slowed down / disappeared now that you mention it.
Hell, fairly niche IPs like Shadowrun and Battletech probably put out over a hundred novels over the years, now you hardly see that sort of thing. There may have been 100 Robotech novels.
Yeah, I think RA Salvatore is still writing, but those books are indeed old now.
I think many readers of Star Wars books have been repeatedly burned by the books being declared non-canonical. I'm not just talking about how the whole Thrawn storyline from the 90s (Zahn?) got thrown out, they also threw out a large percentage of the stuff that was written between the prequels and the 2015-2019 movies. I found it demoralizing anyway.
My favorite Star Wars book was "Kenobi", which had a "Firefly" vibe to it and described Obi Wan's life after he fled to Tatooine. Very space western, and very enjoyable and human tale.
Yup, still writing!
"The latest Dungeons & Dragons series from R.A. Salvatore begins with The Finest Edge of Twilight, coming this October!
The daughter of legendary Dungeons & Dragons adventurers Drizzt Do'Urden and Catti-brie fights to build her own legacy in a brand-new series from R. A. Salvatore.
My name is not "Drizzt's daughter." Breezy Do'Urden is more than just the heir of legendary heroes. For the past decade, she has dedicated herself to the study of combat, magic, and more recently, to the elusive Way of Shadow, honing her body and mind into a keen and singular weapon."
I mostly stopped reading those books about 18 years ago, but I kind of want to read that one. I think I’ve read 20 or so books in that universe. It’s really a great series of books and universe. I always loved the whole system of how the houses have to be overthrown perfectly and if one member survives the overthrowing house is punished.
I also remember thinking Salvatore did a great job transporting the reader into magical worlds. The books were great escapes. I’m particularly remembering one book that focused just on Regis the halfling and his life in (I think) a thieves’ guild in this southern seaside town. It had this nice image of the swashbuckling era, the age of sail.
"My favorite Star Wars book was "Kenobi", which had a "Firefly" vibe to it and described Obi Wan's life after he fled to Tatooine. Very space western, and very enjoyable and human tale."
Probably better than the show.
I keep meaning to pick up some of Babylon 5 books, apparently some of them really add a lot to the show, particularly the ones about Londo and Bester.
Just googled, looks like there are a few Star Trek Strange New Worlds novels, so it's not a completely dead publishing genre, but it has many fewer novels than Babylon 5 or even Stargate, which were pretty niche shows.
The B5 books are good (and canon). The Centauri trilogy (by Peter David) is my favorite but I like all three. Just don't accidentally buy the novelizations of the movies as younger me did when I hadn't seen all of them yet in the pre DVD age.
D&D books have switched to a younger market. There's a couple new ones out set in waterdeep but they're very targeted at teens
Love that my fellow girlies are keeping the bookstore business alive with their romantasy, but I will be right there with you in the dadlit section everyday. Have you read The Wager by David Grann?
Yes! It's on my bookshelf 5 feet from me right now. I have read 4 books about shipwrecks/age of sail in the last year: The Wager by David Grann, Left For Dead by Eric Jay Dolin (shipwreck in Falkland Islands during War of 1812), Save Our Souls by Matthew Pearl (shipwreck in Midway Islands in 1888), and The Wide Wide Sea by Hampton Sides (covers the third voyage of James Cook, the one ending with his death at the hands of Hawaiians; I highly recommend this book to get a deeper/more nuanced appreciation of Cook's 3rd and final voyage). I also have 4 others on my shelf in the queue.
The Wager was outstanding though. I take it you have read it too?
Two Years Before the Mast by Richard Henry Dana - You want to know what it was like on a ship in the early 1800s, without going through Moby Dick, that’s your book.
I bought both this and The Terror by Dan Simmons on recommendations in this thread.
Yes, and The Wide, Wide Sea as well. I'll have to check out the others. For a fictionalized account, I really enjoyed The Terror by Dan Simmons, though I actually think the TV version did an even better job with it (and handled the female characters a bit more respectfully IMO).
Nice! I just checked my bookshelf and I have the following books about shipwrecks/ocean voyages in my queue not yet read: Mayflower by Nathaniel Philbrick, Black Flags, Blue Waters by Eric Jay Dolin (about pirates), In the Heart of the Sea by Nathaniel Philbrick (whaling disaster), In the Kingdom of Ice by Hampton Sides (abandoning ship in polar ice), Icebound by Andrea Pitzer about Danish sailor Barents in the 1500s after whom the Barents Sea is named, and Over the Edge of the World by Lawrence Bergeen about Magellan's circumnavigation. I also have various books about the wild west, frontier America, gold rush etc. Have read "Worst Journey in the World" about trip to the South Pole. Very enjoyable genre and I believe overwhelmingly read by men. I'll have to check out The Terror.
Screenshotting this for ideas to read next. You might also enjoy Astoria, about the efforts to settle the PNW (or at least to extend a fur trading empire to it) financed by John Jacob Astor soon after the Lewis and Clark expedition. Lots of incredible life and death struggles for survival, both at sea and overland. Plus Mutiny on the Bounty, and if you're into fiction, the Master and Commander series (of which the first 3 make a fine trilogy) is just the best.
I have actually read The Wager and The Wide, Wide Sea and those are both great. Many of those I listed I have not yet read but are in my queue. I'm confident I'll enjoy them.
I'll take note of those! I do like that exact kind of stuff.
Thanks for the recs! Definitely a typically "male" genre, but this is why gender stereotypes are just stereotypes, not iron rules! I am feminine in most every way, I like to cook, knit, and bake, but when I want to curl up with a good book, I reach for maritime disasters not bodice-rippers.
I bought both The Terror and Two Years Before the mast by Richard Dana on recommendations in this thread.
And I'm a dude and I do all the grocery shopping and cooking! Nice to meet a fellow stereotype-defier!
At 63 I can say this: We were only interrupted once by our daughter, then 14, with a knock on our bedroom door. The way we said "later" tipped her off and we heard her running down the hallway shouting "gross," but laughing. We were laughing too.
With three kids, I think our record's pretty good.
My mom told me after I grew up that she and my father regularly went to the Motel 6 in the next town when my sister and I were teens!
Playing it safe!
In the one sense, yes, but in the “bring home bedbugs” sense, I dunno…
Just don’t examine the room with a black light in the dark.
Young people are so contemptuous of “stomp clap hey” and I find it very irritating. I know they have a life-threatening allergy to earnestness and don’t even seem to *like* music in the way that every other recent generation has, but do they listen to a single thing that involves an actual musical instrument, or even just a human voice that hasn’t been so filtered through software that it wouldn’t be unrecognizable live? “Stomp clap hey” doesn’t have to be your taste, but it’s like a hobo drinking Purel going on a tear about how margaritas are basic. Okay man. You’re clearly a person of refined tastes.
Yeah I know it's partially youth nostalgia but the kind of "folksy bluegrass revival" stuff that got so popular from like 2008-2014 was mostly fun, solid music. Not stuff I'd put with the classics but man I find the whole "ugh cringe, everything has to be ironic and sarcastic" tone of GenZ just extremely irritating; what a bummer way to spend your young years.
Even their GenX parents had their earnest moments, especially about broken homes (the topic of so many GenX era music and movies).
Also like…what do you *actually* like, then? Used to be, if you wanted to make fun of how lame other people’s tastes were, you’d be passionate about an alternative and could feel superior not just for hating x but also by being into y instead. They do not seem to be doing that. All they have is mockery and problematizing, but I have yet to see any really passion for something else. I guess because passion requires earnestness.
I know, right! GenX has the reputation for being cynical slackers and all, but, we always had something we LIKED along something we hated. “I can’t STAND Motley Crue but I love Iron Maiden!” “I can’t stand that 70’s dad rock but I love punk and goth!” “Fuck all y’all, I love my Bach and Beethoven!”
At least the terminally online and loud Zoomers seem to just hate everything. We hate sex. We hate music. We hate people who love their pets. We hate Wal-Mart. What a dreary mindset. (Sure, it’s fine to hate WalMart, but what do you *like?*) I wonder how much overlap there is in the Venn diagram of “chronic complainers and I hate everything people” and “I don’t have any friends, waaah.”
This is what happens when everything becomes some sort of weird morality play. There’s a risk in liking anything because there’s always someone out there to gleefully tell you how the thing you like is “problematic.” Nobody ever claims that hating something is problematic.
Terminally online & loud is key. Most people I know love loads of things. It's like Silent Generation dismissing boomers as hippies when that was a vocal minority
As a Zoomer who hates the Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeroes style of music, I feel kind of obligated to respond to this. My favorite genre of music is drum and bass, a subgenre of EDM characterized by fast-tempo (usually 175 BPM) breakbeats with heavy bass lines. It's pretty popular among people who play my sport, which is where I first came into contact with it. I suspect it isn't the sort of music you will like judging by your previous comments, but I seriously and earnestly enjoy listening to it, and I actually got into DJing because of it.
Here's a recording of a set by a famous DnB producer, if you're curious and want to give it a listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c4DFNy2t9E
Good to see a fellow Zoomer enthusiast of something! I like EDM casually, will investigate this..
I continue to unironically enjoy Mumford and Sons, and a bit of the Lumineers. Also Nickel Creek, although that’s just modern bluegrass, not “stomp clap hey”.
It WAS a weird little fad, if we’re being honest. Came and went seemingly out of nowhere.
I like stomp clap hey and I love the lumineers, the youths can suck it.
How does one "ironically" enjoy Mumford and Sons?
https://youtu.be/rId6PKlDXeU?si=aoENll_1Pb4q8rrL
It did get old when every song had the stomp clap hey… especially when they were all then in car commercials.. but I did love a few! Esp Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros! A great 70s hippie cult music vibe. And I LOVE Jade’s voice. She did have a terrible drug addiction. I think she’s clean now.
This line me think of the song Boom Clap by Charli XCX which I will admit is in the short list of songs I listen to loudly alone in my car.
I'm not so entirely sure it's exclusively young people (gen Z) that are the biggest haters on stomp clap, most of the pushback I've seen from it come from my millennial cohort.
The hate is a bit much, but I get it in some ways. I had a big Mumford phase, I was even a fan of that Edward Sharpe song until it hit a saturation point that it turned to annoyance.
I think it's the lack of earnestness that some people have an issue with too. The guy from Edward Sharpe totally recreated himself from hip hop > punk infused indie > landing on the money maker with Edward Sharpe. I'm sure plenty of people had negative experiences with dudes who looked like the Edward Sharpe character that probably tint their view of it. IMO that was the male manipulator archetype in 2012.
It's hard for a musical trend to survive more than a decade. This too shall pass.
so... redpilled incels who are triggered by sorority rush video are now left wing...?
it is such an eco system on far right that they post something to ragebait, nobody reacts but they declare the win anyway
maybe they live in CBU lmao
That's RW social media in a nutshell; declaring "XYZ is going to ENRAGE THE LIBS!" .no libs respond but they all chuckle amongst themselves regardless.
It’s mental masturbation. They get off by envisioning triggered libs - no actual triggered libs needed.
Arguably, all the genuinely "sensitive" libs decamped for Bluesky or elsewhere, so right-wing Twitter has no choice but to make up a lib to get mad about
yeah, like online far right living in another reality is a well know fact, but "imaginary owned libs" is tbh whole next level lol
Horseshoe theory I guess?
I suppose next we'll hear about conservatives talking about how all of our economy is a con to keep the working man down so the "socialists" at the top can make bank by cutting regulations and get more tax cuts.
This is in line with a very Republican relative of mine who was telling me a few years ago that he actually agrees with Black Lives Matter and thinks that Black people really are treated worse and that racism didn't really end after Lincoln or MLK. I was simply shocked, almost unable to speak. Then he went on to say that the best way to rectify the situation was to vote Republican because Democrats want to keep Blacks down by keeping them on the "welfare plantation" but Republicans know that teaching them about hard work and respect for the system will turn things around for them - he also added that Ron DeSantis might have been sent by God.
Omg that is WILD!
Like I wonder this happens if you consume the media where the most sane one is Fox News…?
Has anyone here seen the surreal short film Cash App made with Chalamet where he tries to buy rare fruits and vegetables but the vendor only accepts non-monetary barter? Yes this is a real thing
What. Ok I need to see this
https://youtu.be/m_AO-rGmnnA?si=UlhMymip8fDZSIgZ
A+ for creativity. Volcanic soil omfg 🤣🤣
Yes! It played before a movie I saw and I was like "what the fuck that was an ad for fuckin *CashApp*?".
I wish my wife would let us "abuse" our kids a little more often...
For real my husband and I have "abused" our baby so much under the premise "she's no gonna remember. She's not even 1!"
This made me chortle
The “no sex with kids in the house” thing seems like the latest metastasis of the “children must be segregated from normal life” thing. Another one I’ve seen a lot of is online women losing their shit over the idea of beer being served (for the adults, obviously) at a kids’ birthday party. Like we need to treat all adult activities like sex offenders - illegal within 500 feet of a minor.
And that “let’s keep kids insulated from normal life” always results in kids not knowing how to behave once they are adults and actually expected to participate in normal life. Then their coworkers write in to Alison Green’s column.
That, or people don’t want to have kids if that’s what they are going to be enduring for the next 18+ years. So much ink and so many pixels have been spilled on why people don’t want kids, or want more than one, but I bet you my last buck that “compulsory intensive helicopter parenting” contributes.
What’s especially tiresome is that it’s coming from both directions - you’ve got the “children should never exist in public” anti-kid crowd AND the “shield children from any exposure to the public because it’s abuse” hyper-helicopters.
Yes, I agree it’s tiresome! Especially coming from all directions. I don’t have kids and in fact never wanted them, but I think kids SHOULD exist in public. Because, get this, they need to be TAUGHT how to behave in public. No, we don’t run in the grocery store, that might hurt someone. No, we don’t go up and pet strange dogs without permission. Etc. Kids need to be part of the public, and they need to be held to standards. That’s how you raise adults that don’t act like they belong in the chimp enclosure at the zoo.
Reminds me of how a lot of people are acting like parents brining their kids to breweries is some new thing. Which is wild because I’m not young by any means and I grew up going to breweries with my parents. Because at least where I live unlike bars you can actually bring a kid to brewery so it’s hardly shocking.
It's sad seeing all the complaints about kids at breweries. As long as they're not destructive it's cute seeing them enjoy some pretzel bites and play giant Jenga.
1) How are you supposed to have a second kid if you're not allowed to have sex when they're in the house? They're always there.
2) Are external walls made out of a magic substance that makes it OK? What if they're in the garden? Or the neighbour's house? Or is that still too close?
What if YOU'RE in the garden?
“So when a Mommy Garden Gnome and a Daddy Garden Gnome love each other very much, they…”
I opened the link for the Edward Sharpe and Magnetic Zeros clip and while some of the commenters were normal, there was a shocking number being needlessly racist. While Twitter was never good, it’s really gone downhill because of all the extremists.
And yet, people seem to be more ok being around that kind of extreme racism than BlueSky woke scolds, which continues to mystify me. And I say that as someone who doesn’t like BlueSky wokescolds at all.
It makes sense if people don't take the racists seriously.
Goon books: anyone from the pre-internet era remember that thing called the “supermarket checkout stand” where you could get the National Enquirer, Good Housekeeping, candy bars, and “paper back book with cover featuring busty lady doing backbend in the arms of a long-haired pirate/Viking/highwayman, entitled Love’s [Adjective] [Noun]?” Nothing to see here but romantasy has taken the place of bodice rippers and you can’t buy candy bars in bookstores. (also why “goon” books?)
Sorority girls: do blue haired lesbians have a thing for clunky white sneakers? Do resentful incels?
Sex with kids in the house: I hope this is just very niche shut-in zoomer discourse. If not, then people need to rediscover how to use the locks that are on every master bedroom door. And master the fine art of kicking the kids out into the back yard or at least letting them have a little screen time (back in the day it was Saturday morning cartoons!).
Timothee Chalamet: is putting Timothee in an ad a maneuver along the same lines of baiting raccoon traps with fish meal? “I swear, Jason, chicks see Timothee Chalamet, we can reel ‘em in, no matter what the product actually is.” = one ad exec to the other
What I miss by the checkout is the Weekly World News. It was the non-celebrity tabloid. I used to grab a copy and a pint of ice cream after a rough week at work. Remember Bat Boy? And headlines like "Ten Senators are Space Aliens." Sometimes they just put a lurid spin on real news, like about licking toads to get high, but mostly it was made up. I guess it wouldn't be funny nowadays since it seems like so much of the news is made up, or it's straight reporting but it's about made-up stuff. I don't recall that there was anything particularly political about it, that for example all the senators who were space aliens were from the same party, but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough.
Bat Boy! There was one cover with the story of how he married Britney Spears. 😂
Re: mastering the fine art of kicking the kids out into the back yard or at least letting them have a little screen time - still doesn’t work. They come in because there were too many bugs, or because they got thirsty, or because they want to do sidewalk chalk and they can’t remember where it is. Or they pause the TV and run upstairs because they realize they’re hungry, or…
I cannot have enjoyable sex when I’m in “mom mode,” and having awake kids on the premises means mom mode.
I remember someone mentioning it was common to drink hose water because you literally weren’t allowed back in the house while playing outside. Didn’t quite get it as a kid/young adult, fully get it as a parent.
Can we at least get some specificity on the “bunch of people” who said that you shouldn’t have sex in your house? Like what gen are they, are they men or women, is it left or right coded, etc.
Gen Z, mostly women
So these people are not married with kids! That makes more sense.
The odd thing about GenZ is that many of them have very complex sexualities without ever actually having had sex.
Most of my friends are straight, some are bi or gay, nearly all have...maybe I'm just lucky to know normal people. ..
It’s clear that Dave B Anthony has never set foot in a library or a Barnes and Noble. What an enormous dipshit.
Also, reading a book older than a year old counts as reading. That's always been the vast majority of reading that people do. You don't only have to read new releases.
Yeah 100%. Multiple things can be true: (1) it is increasingly hard for men to get published in literary fiction (it is also hard for women to get published if their book isn’t oppression porn) (2) going into bookstores is kind of annoying these days because like 1/3 of the shelves are the “America is racist” section and 1/3 of the shelves are the “yay communism” shelves (3) there are literally hundreds of years of perfectly good books you can read that aren’t products of the current ultra-woke publishing regime, plus zillions of genre fiction books that aren’t subject to those rules, so maybe get over yourself?
It really doesn’t seem like oppression porn is the main thing publishers want.
*Actual, literal porn* seems infinitely more common in the fiction section whenever I go to the bookstore.
I am neither a woman or a published author, I’m just going off what Kat Rosenfeld and Phoebe Maltz-Bovy say (that a woman can’t publish a book about anything without making it about herself).
I present to you: Yael van der Wouden, Rachel Kushner, Jo Hamya, Olga Tokarczuk,
Ugh posted twice, sorry. Also Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie, Han Kang, Laila Lalami and many others. I like the Feminine Chaos pod, but their dismissal of women's literature is unfair & inaccurate.
I present to you: Yael van der Wouden, Rachel Kushner, Jo Hamya, Olga Tokarczuk,
I think there is a value to physical bookstores that a lot of people are missing out on because of these trends. Most obviously, to buy a book online you have to already know it exists.
I like buying e-books, for many reasons (not least portability). However, one of the magical things about physical bookstores is the serendipity factor. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve gone in to a bookstore looking for a particular book and come out with a different book, or sometimes an armload of different books. It’s harder to get that thrill of discovery online.
There’s subreddits and Goodreads lists for “If I like Book X, what else will I like?” Heck you can even ask on fanfic lists and non-book-related forums. “I like this book or this author or this genre. Recommend me something!” Or even “Read any good books lately? What are they?” The beauty of apps like Libby is you don’t have to actually shell out for the book. You can get virtual library books now! (Or just walk on down to the library and get a dead tree version. You don’t like it? No harm no foul. That’s what libraries are for.)
Running a bookstore seems to be a pretty low-margin operation. Our local bookstore owner must be a pretty smart cookie if she has stayed in business this long despite Amazon. Bookstores are going to stock what sells, but independent bookstores are happy to order stuff for you. If there's something the guys want to see, they should go into an independent bookstore and ask for it instead of whining.
There are plenty of women authors whose books aren't oppression porn.
Exactly
That guy is right, they were complaining about how frivolous and degenerate sorority rush videos are a year or two ago. "Why are women even bothering with college if this is how they spend their time?" type stuff.
That was before conservatism (c) took ownership of all attractive women.
Just to be clear, if you are an attractive women (say 7/10 or above), you are only allowed to be conservative now. All liberal women are blue haired lesbians!
IT IS KNOWN!!!
I thank God I was in a sorority in the mid 80s where the most complicated thing we had to do was clap on beat and sing songs as the rushees exited the house. We performed SKITS, for God's sake, during the rush party. But yes, all the SEC girls performing a hugely choreographed routine always show up about now, Bama Rush videos aren't far behind.
I never was in a sorority, but my mom and aunt both were, and it was the same for them - they sang songs, and I think they also all had to wear a certain color or something. That’s it. Those choreographed routines remind me of the “professionalization” of youth sports and the like. You can’t just be in a sorority for the friends and the connections and the built-in fun, you have to know how to do a choreographed dance. It’s very “Mommy and Daddy have paid for dance lessons since I was five” stuff.