In defense of the argument against quarter zips, they're really visually boring (no texture, neutral color) and they tend to pair best with other generally boring pieces of clothing like plain button-downs and khaki chinos. It might not necessarily result in a bad fit, but it kind of points people down a default skin path that I don't think achieves the results that they're looking for. I think most guys would be better served wearing a textured or patterned sweater, which holds a little more visual interest (and, from personal experience, does well with women) while being appropriate for the same contexts as a quarter zip.
Can someone, hopefully a woman, explain to me why henleys are attractive? I'm an extremely mid guy and I own a couple henleys, but in my mind they have always been just, like, shirts. Until now I had never even considered the possibility they might enhance my looks. They are just normal-ass shirts with a couple mostly extraneous buttons! Should I wear one on a first date??
Not a woman, but my current model of male fashion is that one should look look formal and organized while also looking rugged and unafraid to get messy and also not looking like a dweeb. Henleys meet this criteria, especially when comparing them to alternatives. Button downs are too formal, t shirts are not formal enough, polos make you look like a dweeb with the collar, as said in the post, the quarter zip makes you look preppy which for many is dweeb-like.
My suspicion is that he dislikes them for exactly the reason CHH likes them--you should choose a casual or dressy lane and not try to "dress up" a casual outfit with the finance bro uniform piece.
Not really. He has threads about how to dress down formal wear. In fact in his reply to CHH article he gives suggestions on how to dress down tailored jackets.
Agreed, it’s a little dressier than just a t-shirt so you look more put-together, but not so dressy that you look weird in most settings. It says I’m trying to look nice but I’m also not afraid of getting dirty. Also the little quarter button down alludes to the suggestion of undressing, but maybe that’s just me being a pervert. And rolled up sleeves are a well-established hot thing. Women go crazy for that.
Depends on your build. If you're decently fit with a bit of muscle definition you'll be fine. I'm a bit heavier (for now) so things like camp shirts, button-downs, and quarter-zips it is.
He let’s are usually pretty tight. The pictures people show about how good they look are always of muscular, fit men. If you’re skinny or on the husky side, you won’t look nearly as good
I might disagree about chubby guys. I think big guys with tattoos and a generally bartender-ish vibe pull off henleys and anything that seems rugged extremely well. It's just such a type in the PNW. And honestly I think all but the least defined skinny guys probably rock them too.
Nice fit, often in flattering colors, slightly undressed vibe without being try-hard. I think this is important too: they were popular when CHH's largest demographic of readers were college-ish (think back to Dexter's kill outfit).
Three quarter zips are a complete affront, however. I was genuinely surprised by that.
I was thinking about the improv lady that got broken up with. On reading your forever girlfriend post, I was wondering what are realistic boundaries to have when you've been waiting on a ring. Should you refuse to move in at all? Should you draw the line at combined finances? The discourse around this post made me realize the boundary is just whatever you/your partner consider "wife things". If you're not yet a wife, don't do wife things and then later be mad they aren't respected as wife things. Those are the boundaries you'll be able to hold in your mind easily than someone else's boundaries that are unrealistic for you.
What id recommend my daughter is simply that without alimony as a safeguard, you shouldn’t take big financial or personal risks. She had to restart her career and friendship circle, which is way more than just moving in from across the city. That deserves a ring! And is actually how I ended up proposing myself
Fully combining finances without some agreed-upon plan for what you'd do to un-combine them seems like a bad idea. I feel like one of the main reasons to get married is that there is a specific process for that, and if you don't want it, you need to affirmatively modify it with a prenup or post-nup.
I usually agree with your takes BUT you are deliberately misstating that library one. The original, original poser wanted an indoor playground, that was open late, in her local library. When it was suggested that she join a local gym with an apparently great play area, she admitted she already belonged to it, but it wasn't convenient (I forget the specific reason). When various park district programs were suggested, there was a reason they were not good either. People deliberately confused the play spaces libraries generally have (train table, puppet theater, even an enclosed space to muffle sounds) with what this woman wanted. She eventually posted lovely pictures showing what she wanted, but no evidence that they were open the hours she wanted, and one person noted that a picture she posted was years out of date and no longer existed.
I did not get involved this time around... except here.
Menswear Guy is one person with one person’s opinions. I think some of his advice is useful for men who are interested in dressing better, but I happen to disagree with some of his opinions.
Case in point - as a woman, I want to defend the quarter zip. It is rustic but cozy, practical but tasteful, stylish but unpretentious, neither dated nor overly trendy, neither tight nor baggy. It works for both younger men and older men. It’s a nice option for men who want to be comfortable but look a bit more put together. Men, if you like quarter zips or are considering them, don’t feel like Menswear Guy’s opinion should stop you from wearing them.
In his reply to her article, he even gives recommendations for quarter zips. He recommends (as he always does) more textured material or more interesting designs.
To give a slightly different perspective: I have also known men who moved across the country to be with their long term girlfriends who have shortly after broken up. A couple thoughts: (1) there is something about a long distance move that causes people to reinvent themselves, having a completely different friend group will make them seem like a different person (2) the person who moves first is doing so for specific reasons (grad school, etc) that gives them a ready made friend group, while the person who follows is stuck in this kind of hanger-on situation that tends to make them (inherently, though unfairly) less attractive (3) this latter tendency is massively enhanced for men, we see men who follow women as kind of gross and unmanly while we see women who follow men as sympathetic. For this reason you’re just not going to see people talking about the other direction (“I followed my girlfriend like a chump and she dumped me for her med student friend”).
For all these reasons I’d say that being dumped following a long distance move is a non central example of your “men wasting women’s fertility” thesis. However for everyone in that situation being married is going to be a much stronger incentive to make things work.
I genuinely feel bad for the young woman who moved all the way to TX only to get dumped after a 3.5 year relationship. Situations like these make me see why some young secular Americans especially women are very cynical about marriage and romantic relationships.
My preferred approach as a man is marriage for life after six months of dating and six months engaged. Not many woman are up for that high intensity full-speed deep mutual discovery. Going to keep looking 😎
Ladies, please question why dating has been stretched into a multi-year obstacle course. Come up with a plan for your life.
Gents, if you don’t want to marry a woman you are with then please let her go so that another man can marry her. Come up with a plan for your life.
Parents, please raise your children better so that they do not turn into sunk-cost multi-year daters.
Quarter zips are very popular in NYC "more casual than pre-Covid business casual" fashion. I find them kind of meh, and I generally think I agree with Guy, even though he's being a bit hyperbolic. If you want to dress casual, dress casual. If you want to dress less casual, wear a button down or something. This whole thing about trying to split the difference feels kind of silly to me.
I've also always found it confusing that some women describe t-shirts or hoodies as "low effort," when I can assure you that a quarter zip or whatever does not require any more "effort." Maybe it's just one of those things where you're just sort of demonstrating your willingness to check the box, and someone who isn't willing to do that doesn't look as good?
Perhaps if your boyfriend calls you demanding and self-centered for wanting a proposal timeline before moving cross country, you shouldn’t move cross country with him.
Re: the soulless IVF thing I’ve worked with a lot of 1%er parents, big users of IVF, and a lot of their children are raised by nannies who rotate yearly, their house is filled with innumerable toys that also rotate yearly, and their parents often use wealth to buy affection and stave off any dissatisfaction in the child which is a real recipe for psychopathy.
I also usually love the Menswear Guy on Twitter, but I definitely agree with you about 1/4 zips—they're so hot to me but I can't explain why, I think it's maybe because they look casual but not too sloppy and also cozy and huggable. Also, I really hate the humblebragging about "pretty privilege" on Twitter and in general—it just always seems so superficial and kind of mean-spirited. Thank you for sharing these!
i do not like quarter zips, they remind me of my grandpa going to play bocce after dinner. they’re for old men from the northeast and that’s it, no young guy should be wearing that. it’s like putting a sweater over your shoulders and daintily tying the arms together, very disgusting.
I think it has to do with baseline. A lot of women see a quarter zip and are like “that guy looks nice, he’s not wearing a hoodie he got in college.” Menswear guy is like “that quarter zip is more boring than a sports coat”. Both of those statements are true.
In defense of the argument against quarter zips, they're really visually boring (no texture, neutral color) and they tend to pair best with other generally boring pieces of clothing like plain button-downs and khaki chinos. It might not necessarily result in a bad fit, but it kind of points people down a default skin path that I don't think achieves the results that they're looking for. I think most guys would be better served wearing a textured or patterned sweater, which holds a little more visual interest (and, from personal experience, does well with women) while being appropriate for the same contexts as a quarter zip.
Can someone, hopefully a woman, explain to me why henleys are attractive? I'm an extremely mid guy and I own a couple henleys, but in my mind they have always been just, like, shirts. Until now I had never even considered the possibility they might enhance my looks. They are just normal-ass shirts with a couple mostly extraneous buttons! Should I wear one on a first date??
Not a woman, but my current model of male fashion is that one should look look formal and organized while also looking rugged and unafraid to get messy and also not looking like a dweeb. Henleys meet this criteria, especially when comparing them to alternatives. Button downs are too formal, t shirts are not formal enough, polos make you look like a dweeb with the collar, as said in the post, the quarter zip makes you look preppy which for many is dweeb-like.
The menswear guy loves preppy looks though. I think the issue is he doesn't like wearing a single piece if it conflicts with your outfit.
I think the zipper makes it look visually top heavy too.
My suspicion is that he dislikes them for exactly the reason CHH likes them--you should choose a casual or dressy lane and not try to "dress up" a casual outfit with the finance bro uniform piece.
Not really. He has threads about how to dress down formal wear. In fact in his reply to CHH article he gives suggestions on how to dress down tailored jackets.
What did he say specifically about quarter zips?
Henleys give off an autumnal, lumberjack vibe. They have a rugged, down-to-earth charm.
Agreed, it’s a little dressier than just a t-shirt so you look more put-together, but not so dressy that you look weird in most settings. It says I’m trying to look nice but I’m also not afraid of getting dirty. Also the little quarter button down alludes to the suggestion of undressing, but maybe that’s just me being a pervert. And rolled up sleeves are a well-established hot thing. Women go crazy for that.
"Should I wear one on a first date??"
Depends on your build. If you're decently fit with a bit of muscle definition you'll be fine. I'm a bit heavier (for now) so things like camp shirts, button-downs, and quarter-zips it is.
He let’s are usually pretty tight. The pictures people show about how good they look are always of muscular, fit men. If you’re skinny or on the husky side, you won’t look nearly as good
I might disagree about chubby guys. I think big guys with tattoos and a generally bartender-ish vibe pull off henleys and anything that seems rugged extremely well. It's just such a type in the PNW. And honestly I think all but the least defined skinny guys probably rock them too.
Thanks you everyone for the insightful replies!
Nice fit, often in flattering colors, slightly undressed vibe without being try-hard. I think this is important too: they were popular when CHH's largest demographic of readers were college-ish (think back to Dexter's kill outfit).
Three quarter zips are a complete affront, however. I was genuinely surprised by that.
I was thinking about the improv lady that got broken up with. On reading your forever girlfriend post, I was wondering what are realistic boundaries to have when you've been waiting on a ring. Should you refuse to move in at all? Should you draw the line at combined finances? The discourse around this post made me realize the boundary is just whatever you/your partner consider "wife things". If you're not yet a wife, don't do wife things and then later be mad they aren't respected as wife things. Those are the boundaries you'll be able to hold in your mind easily than someone else's boundaries that are unrealistic for you.
What id recommend my daughter is simply that without alimony as a safeguard, you shouldn’t take big financial or personal risks. She had to restart her career and friendship circle, which is way more than just moving in from across the city. That deserves a ring! And is actually how I ended up proposing myself
Fully combining finances without some agreed-upon plan for what you'd do to un-combine them seems like a bad idea. I feel like one of the main reasons to get married is that there is a specific process for that, and if you don't want it, you need to affirmatively modify it with a prenup or post-nup.
Which is why prenups should be mandatory!
I usually agree with your takes BUT you are deliberately misstating that library one. The original, original poser wanted an indoor playground, that was open late, in her local library. When it was suggested that she join a local gym with an apparently great play area, she admitted she already belonged to it, but it wasn't convenient (I forget the specific reason). When various park district programs were suggested, there was a reason they were not good either. People deliberately confused the play spaces libraries generally have (train table, puppet theater, even an enclosed space to muffle sounds) with what this woman wanted. She eventually posted lovely pictures showing what she wanted, but no evidence that they were open the hours she wanted, and one person noted that a picture she posted was years out of date and no longer existed.
I did not get involved this time around... except here.
Menswear Guy is one person with one person’s opinions. I think some of his advice is useful for men who are interested in dressing better, but I happen to disagree with some of his opinions.
Case in point - as a woman, I want to defend the quarter zip. It is rustic but cozy, practical but tasteful, stylish but unpretentious, neither dated nor overly trendy, neither tight nor baggy. It works for both younger men and older men. It’s a nice option for men who want to be comfortable but look a bit more put together. Men, if you like quarter zips or are considering them, don’t feel like Menswear Guy’s opinion should stop you from wearing them.
And if you hate them, don't feel like these opinions should confuse you into thinking they are the skeleton key for women fawning all over you ;)
In his reply to her article, he even gives recommendations for quarter zips. He recommends (as he always does) more textured material or more interesting designs.
To give a slightly different perspective: I have also known men who moved across the country to be with their long term girlfriends who have shortly after broken up. A couple thoughts: (1) there is something about a long distance move that causes people to reinvent themselves, having a completely different friend group will make them seem like a different person (2) the person who moves first is doing so for specific reasons (grad school, etc) that gives them a ready made friend group, while the person who follows is stuck in this kind of hanger-on situation that tends to make them (inherently, though unfairly) less attractive (3) this latter tendency is massively enhanced for men, we see men who follow women as kind of gross and unmanly while we see women who follow men as sympathetic. For this reason you’re just not going to see people talking about the other direction (“I followed my girlfriend like a chump and she dumped me for her med student friend”).
For all these reasons I’d say that being dumped following a long distance move is a non central example of your “men wasting women’s fertility” thesis. However for everyone in that situation being married is going to be a much stronger incentive to make things work.
I highly recommend against moving for a mere boyfriend or girlfriend. Move together as a married couple 😊
I genuinely feel bad for the young woman who moved all the way to TX only to get dumped after a 3.5 year relationship. Situations like these make me see why some young secular Americans especially women are very cynical about marriage and romantic relationships.
My preferred approach as a man is marriage for life after six months of dating and six months engaged. Not many woman are up for that high intensity full-speed deep mutual discovery. Going to keep looking 😎
Ladies, please question why dating has been stretched into a multi-year obstacle course. Come up with a plan for your life.
Gents, if you don’t want to marry a woman you are with then please let her go so that another man can marry her. Come up with a plan for your life.
Parents, please raise your children better so that they do not turn into sunk-cost multi-year daters.
Quarter zips are very popular in NYC "more casual than pre-Covid business casual" fashion. I find them kind of meh, and I generally think I agree with Guy, even though he's being a bit hyperbolic. If you want to dress casual, dress casual. If you want to dress less casual, wear a button down or something. This whole thing about trying to split the difference feels kind of silly to me.
I've also always found it confusing that some women describe t-shirts or hoodies as "low effort," when I can assure you that a quarter zip or whatever does not require any more "effort." Maybe it's just one of those things where you're just sort of demonstrating your willingness to check the box, and someone who isn't willing to do that doesn't look as good?
Somehow ‘ugly’ remains the most insulting thing to call a woman, even in sympathy. It’s like a slur
Perhaps if your boyfriend calls you demanding and self-centered for wanting a proposal timeline before moving cross country, you shouldn’t move cross country with him.
Re: the soulless IVF thing I’ve worked with a lot of 1%er parents, big users of IVF, and a lot of their children are raised by nannies who rotate yearly, their house is filled with innumerable toys that also rotate yearly, and their parents often use wealth to buy affection and stave off any dissatisfaction in the child which is a real recipe for psychopathy.
I also usually love the Menswear Guy on Twitter, but I definitely agree with you about 1/4 zips—they're so hot to me but I can't explain why, I think it's maybe because they look casual but not too sloppy and also cozy and huggable. Also, I really hate the humblebragging about "pretty privilege" on Twitter and in general—it just always seems so superficial and kind of mean-spirited. Thank you for sharing these!
i do not like quarter zips, they remind me of my grandpa going to play bocce after dinner. they’re for old men from the northeast and that’s it, no young guy should be wearing that. it’s like putting a sweater over your shoulders and daintily tying the arms together, very disgusting.
I think it has to do with baseline. A lot of women see a quarter zip and are like “that guy looks nice, he’s not wearing a hoodie he got in college.” Menswear guy is like “that quarter zip is more boring than a sports coat”. Both of those statements are true.