It's a weird experience to have your favorite podcast interview you. It's even weirder when the topic is "what's wrong with me." A free article on my 47 minutes of fame.
“…I don’t walk around and see myself as a ‘hot girl,’ just a mom who is reasonably fit for my age.”
That’s the thing, though - you’re not just “reasonably fit for your age,” you’re objectively thin. Probably 97% of women in their mid-thirties who have given birth to two children are bigger/heavier than you. You’re thin, and you wear a lot of very form-fitting clothes, and you’re clearly dressing to be noticed by others - not sexually noticed, but noticed. And I think it’s highly likely that being around you makes other women feel like shit about their bodies in comparison.
I know this sounds really weird, but I never thought that being skinny was that big of a deal or even that good of a thing. When I get jealous of other women, it’s never because they’re skinnier than me. That’s probably just because I have not struggled with my weight so it’s important for me to think about how that makes other people feel! But I guess I always assumed that at least up until recently women would not react negatively to anything about my looks.
“When I get jealous of other women, it’s never because they’re skinnier” is kind of the very definition of thin privilege, though. I’m sure when Christina Hendricks gets jealous of other women it’s never because of their boobs.
Well it’s not like I never see women thinner than I am! I’m 5’5” and oscillate between 125-130, so I’m thin but hardly the thinnest woman in any given room. I agree there’s a thin privilege component that I just don’t have to fixate on it but I do encounter people skinnier than me quite often!
I get it. Up until I got pregnant at age 27, I wore a size small in S/M/L, either a 4 or a 6 in US numbered sizes, and 34A bras. And that was easy for me to maintain as long as I didn’t overeat and took a walk every now and then. So I didn’t think much about it.
Then I had a baby and my ribcage and bust permanently expanded, and I started eating loads of junk food because I had severe postpartum depression and packages brownies felt like one of the only good things in my life. Now I’m wearing L, either 10 or 12, and 38B bras - and, hooray, I just turned 40, so perimenopause is probably going to kick me one of these days. I’m not even plus-size, but I’m much more conscious of my weight than I used to be…
…and oh, hey, Substack is letting us do italics in the comments now, I see.
It seems like having a baby can be so unpredictable in terms of what it does to your body. I’ve even seen people say it gave them a better figure, which I can’t claim to understand, but good for them lol. I got lucky but I do have a pretty crepey stomach which can’t even be touched with fitness, I’d have to get surgery. I do wish people would stop blaming women for these kinds of things as if we have perfect control over it.
It's obviously unfair to blame you for it but you gotta consider the extent to which your fashion choices accentuate your skinny and small figure. Take one of your cute tops or coats and compare it to an XL next time you're at a clothing store and just look at the volume of fabric. Like I wish we did not live in a world like this but we do...
Oma here. My pregnancies in 1989 and 1992 utterly ruined my body — they triggered insulin resistance, I now understand — so I spent all those prime years fighting weight battles I could never win.
And then GLP-1s made nearly 90 pounds fall off with no effort at all.
It’s bittersweet to be 60 and finally at my pre-pregnancy weight! I lost a lot of potential “hot” years.
It wouldn’t even occur to me to be mad at someone for having a nicer body than mine. I’d be mad at 90% of dudes! I suppose if they were shirtless at a funeral, i might find it a little blatant.
I wouldn’t say it’s about her being fit per se, because I see plenty of fit moms, but it is the outfits (many of which I really admire, especially the recent ones!) I have a toddler and I’ve met many other moms in play groups, at the park, in mommy and me classes, etc. If someone showed up to my local splash pad wearing tiny pink gingham shorts and a crop top, with platform sandals and a little matching purse, it would seem really, really weird. Most people are dressed comfortably and sure, there are fashionable moms, but fashionable in this context is a nice peasant top and linen pants. Whether this is CHH’s intent or not, these looks draw a lot of attention to her, which is fine if you’re going out in the city for drinks but when it’s Saturday morning and the focus is on our kids laughing and playing together, it will be perceived differently. It may elicit comments of “cool outfits!” but it’s not approachable and it doesn’t signal that you’re a relatable mom.
I basically agree with that assessment and these days I would say my clothes are somewhere in between what you’ve mentioned. The Boho style really isn’t for me but a lot of the time I’ll wear some loose gauze shorts in the summer with a tank top, or some other type of pull on shorts or maybe a midi dress or a long skirt with a more fitted top.
I’m a childfree, chubby, queer woman with a ton of mom friends. I’m not even in an enviable body type and gender presentation on the exterior (see: chubby and butch), but I am very fit and physically active for someone my age (the small children years of middle age). I can bench 150, squat 250, deadlift 300, run a 10k, etc.
The number of self-deprecating and guilt-filled comments I get from mom I meet is heartbreaking and insane. I get them from close friends, but also acquaintances and strangers. They always comment on how “put together” my (butch/madculine) clothing is (it’s literally just a uniform), how strong I am, and how much I workout. I am not even conventionally hot!
I think people really misunderstand the power of mom guilt. It’s very weird and sad how much moms project their anxieties onto me, even as a non-mom and an unconventionally attractive person.
I think this is especially true in the upper classes, where health and wellness (read: appearance) is considered an individual responsibility you must uphold.
I have really loved seeing your journey, it has honestly been a reassurance as someone who has also had to learn how to socialize better and is still finding her people while wanting to hold onto my unusual qualities. I don’t generally watch podcasts but this was a great write up and I might just have to track that episode down! I’m taking notes. Very happy to hear you’ve been finding your people! I think there’s definitely something to be said about how being yourself isn’t all-or-nothing, but something you can express dynamically as the social situation evolves and the right people respond well.
“I went so far as to record people’s answers in a spreadsheet (not in front of them, of course) so I could pretend to have a great memory next time I saw them.”
This is a bit bonkers but super-charming as well. It’s just so earnest! I think one of the problems with the last 30 years has been a massive cultural overrating of indifference and coolness and a massive devaluation of the value of earnest effort, in all kinds of domains of life. I’m so pleased the strategy of earnestly caring and Putting in the Work did the job for you and that you now have good friends to go on holiday with and drink champagne till 1am with.
Thank you!! The funny thing is, it worked. I piloted this strategy at a former workplace and I think I was generally very well-liked there, remote work helped because I could socialize more deliberately and have my notes available 😂
As someone who went to both an all Black and White school. One thing I notice about upper class White people that there are a lot of unspoken social rules that you have to learn. One of them is the culture of “false humility”” White girls who are attractive, is subject to this rule. You have to pretend like you are humble and don't think too highly of yourself, and the only flexing you can do is humble brag. My guess is a combination of how you communicate and how you dress you break the false humility rule.
Wait, your close friends *did* enjoy the impressions/performances? Well, that changes everything. “Fuck the haters” becomes an entirely rational response to those who have a problem with them!
I think it depends on which friends. I think some of them did enjoy it and others didn’t hate it, but tolerated it because they liked other things about me. Anyone who had very strongly negative opinions about it would probably not wanna hang out with me again so they wouldn’t be a close friend!
Yeah, I mean if you think about how people behave on reality TV it’s because they’re sort of playing a character of themselves and that’s what I was doing. I wanted to show exactly who I am in an unfiltered sense because that was the whole point. I do not open most conversations with a Trump impression lol
Well if your parents mostly talked AT you, that explains all the things. I've long wondered why someone who had a supportive family and relatively privileged childhood would be so disconnected from and lack confidence in their own feelings and emotions. You didn't get them mirrored or acknowledged enough. So maybe you weren't mirroring or acknowledging the feelings of others around you enough.
If you have a nice social situation now where it's easier for you to be connected to other people's feelings and emotions, that's great, and you'll know to apply the same thought process to your own feelings.
My hunch is if you are surrounded by supportive folks who get you, you'll find that eventually your mental health symptoms will get a lot better.
Apologies if this sounds presumptuous but it's hard to express this while also acknowledging it's not the sole thing.
That's how it goes when writing is not a hobby but your entire income. That said, I do plan on un-paywalling some popular articles for free subscribers on a weekly basis. I was doing it for a while and it didn't seem like anyone was actually going back to read the free version, but maybe I didn't do it for long enough.
“…I don’t walk around and see myself as a ‘hot girl,’ just a mom who is reasonably fit for my age.”
That’s the thing, though - you’re not just “reasonably fit for your age,” you’re objectively thin. Probably 97% of women in their mid-thirties who have given birth to two children are bigger/heavier than you. You’re thin, and you wear a lot of very form-fitting clothes, and you’re clearly dressing to be noticed by others - not sexually noticed, but noticed. And I think it’s highly likely that being around you makes other women feel like shit about their bodies in comparison.
I know this sounds really weird, but I never thought that being skinny was that big of a deal or even that good of a thing. When I get jealous of other women, it’s never because they’re skinnier than me. That’s probably just because I have not struggled with my weight so it’s important for me to think about how that makes other people feel! But I guess I always assumed that at least up until recently women would not react negatively to anything about my looks.
“When I get jealous of other women, it’s never because they’re skinnier” is kind of the very definition of thin privilege, though. I’m sure when Christina Hendricks gets jealous of other women it’s never because of their boobs.
Well it’s not like I never see women thinner than I am! I’m 5’5” and oscillate between 125-130, so I’m thin but hardly the thinnest woman in any given room. I agree there’s a thin privilege component that I just don’t have to fixate on it but I do encounter people skinnier than me quite often!
I get it. Up until I got pregnant at age 27, I wore a size small in S/M/L, either a 4 or a 6 in US numbered sizes, and 34A bras. And that was easy for me to maintain as long as I didn’t overeat and took a walk every now and then. So I didn’t think much about it.
Then I had a baby and my ribcage and bust permanently expanded, and I started eating loads of junk food because I had severe postpartum depression and packages brownies felt like one of the only good things in my life. Now I’m wearing L, either 10 or 12, and 38B bras - and, hooray, I just turned 40, so perimenopause is probably going to kick me one of these days. I’m not even plus-size, but I’m much more conscious of my weight than I used to be…
…and oh, hey, Substack is letting us do italics in the comments now, I see.
It seems like having a baby can be so unpredictable in terms of what it does to your body. I’ve even seen people say it gave them a better figure, which I can’t claim to understand, but good for them lol. I got lucky but I do have a pretty crepey stomach which can’t even be touched with fitness, I’d have to get surgery. I do wish people would stop blaming women for these kinds of things as if we have perfect control over it.
It's obviously unfair to blame you for it but you gotta consider the extent to which your fashion choices accentuate your skinny and small figure. Take one of your cute tops or coats and compare it to an XL next time you're at a clothing store and just look at the volume of fabric. Like I wish we did not live in a world like this but we do...
Oma here. My pregnancies in 1989 and 1992 utterly ruined my body — they triggered insulin resistance, I now understand — so I spent all those prime years fighting weight battles I could never win.
And then GLP-1s made nearly 90 pounds fall off with no effort at all.
It’s bittersweet to be 60 and finally at my pre-pregnancy weight! I lost a lot of potential “hot” years.
It wouldn’t even occur to me to be mad at someone for having a nicer body than mine. I’d be mad at 90% of dudes! I suppose if they were shirtless at a funeral, i might find it a little blatant.
I wouldn’t say it’s about her being fit per se, because I see plenty of fit moms, but it is the outfits (many of which I really admire, especially the recent ones!) I have a toddler and I’ve met many other moms in play groups, at the park, in mommy and me classes, etc. If someone showed up to my local splash pad wearing tiny pink gingham shorts and a crop top, with platform sandals and a little matching purse, it would seem really, really weird. Most people are dressed comfortably and sure, there are fashionable moms, but fashionable in this context is a nice peasant top and linen pants. Whether this is CHH’s intent or not, these looks draw a lot of attention to her, which is fine if you’re going out in the city for drinks but when it’s Saturday morning and the focus is on our kids laughing and playing together, it will be perceived differently. It may elicit comments of “cool outfits!” but it’s not approachable and it doesn’t signal that you’re a relatable mom.
I basically agree with that assessment and these days I would say my clothes are somewhere in between what you’ve mentioned. The Boho style really isn’t for me but a lot of the time I’ll wear some loose gauze shorts in the summer with a tank top, or some other type of pull on shorts or maybe a midi dress or a long skirt with a more fitted top.
If CHH’s demeanor is friendly and approachable, would the outfit still be a dealbreaker?
This is correct in probably so many ways.
I’m a childfree, chubby, queer woman with a ton of mom friends. I’m not even in an enviable body type and gender presentation on the exterior (see: chubby and butch), but I am very fit and physically active for someone my age (the small children years of middle age). I can bench 150, squat 250, deadlift 300, run a 10k, etc.
The number of self-deprecating and guilt-filled comments I get from mom I meet is heartbreaking and insane. I get them from close friends, but also acquaintances and strangers. They always comment on how “put together” my (butch/madculine) clothing is (it’s literally just a uniform), how strong I am, and how much I workout. I am not even conventionally hot!
I think people really misunderstand the power of mom guilt. It’s very weird and sad how much moms project their anxieties onto me, even as a non-mom and an unconventionally attractive person.
I think this is especially true in the upper classes, where health and wellness (read: appearance) is considered an individual responsibility you must uphold.
I have really loved seeing your journey, it has honestly been a reassurance as someone who has also had to learn how to socialize better and is still finding her people while wanting to hold onto my unusual qualities. I don’t generally watch podcasts but this was a great write up and I might just have to track that episode down! I’m taking notes. Very happy to hear you’ve been finding your people! I think there’s definitely something to be said about how being yourself isn’t all-or-nothing, but something you can express dynamically as the social situation evolves and the right people respond well.
I’m so glad you liked it!
“I went so far as to record people’s answers in a spreadsheet (not in front of them, of course) so I could pretend to have a great memory next time I saw them.”
This is a bit bonkers but super-charming as well. It’s just so earnest! I think one of the problems with the last 30 years has been a massive cultural overrating of indifference and coolness and a massive devaluation of the value of earnest effort, in all kinds of domains of life. I’m so pleased the strategy of earnestly caring and Putting in the Work did the job for you and that you now have good friends to go on holiday with and drink champagne till 1am with.
Thank you!! The funny thing is, it worked. I piloted this strategy at a former workplace and I think I was generally very well-liked there, remote work helped because I could socialize more deliberately and have my notes available 😂
Incredible cross-over episode in my content consumption life.
As someone who went to both an all Black and White school. One thing I notice about upper class White people that there are a lot of unspoken social rules that you have to learn. One of them is the culture of “false humility”” White girls who are attractive, is subject to this rule. You have to pretend like you are humble and don't think too highly of yourself, and the only flexing you can do is humble brag. My guess is a combination of how you communicate and how you dress you break the false humility rule.
This is my view as well.
My deepest feelings about CHH's clothes were: But doesn't she know that's not ALLOWED?
And humans hate nothing more than seeing ppl doing things they themselves are not allowed to.
"How dare you just take the spotlight we were all punished for trying to take?"
(As a floor hogging fire-hose-of-me person I too run into this)
Wait, your close friends *did* enjoy the impressions/performances? Well, that changes everything. “Fuck the haters” becomes an entirely rational response to those who have a problem with them!
I think it depends on which friends. I think some of them did enjoy it and others didn’t hate it, but tolerated it because they liked other things about me. Anyone who had very strongly negative opinions about it would probably not wanna hang out with me again so they wouldn’t be a close friend!
For someone who’s decided to thoughtfully tone down the impressions in a social setting the Trump one came in pretty quickly - first sentence iirc?
Yeah, I mean if you think about how people behave on reality TV it’s because they’re sort of playing a character of themselves and that’s what I was doing. I wanted to show exactly who I am in an unfiltered sense because that was the whole point. I do not open most conversations with a Trump impression lol
Well if your parents mostly talked AT you, that explains all the things. I've long wondered why someone who had a supportive family and relatively privileged childhood would be so disconnected from and lack confidence in their own feelings and emotions. You didn't get them mirrored or acknowledged enough. So maybe you weren't mirroring or acknowledging the feelings of others around you enough.
If you have a nice social situation now where it's easier for you to be connected to other people's feelings and emotions, that's great, and you'll know to apply the same thought process to your own feelings.
My hunch is if you are surrounded by supportive folks who get you, you'll find that eventually your mental health symptoms will get a lot better.
Apologies if this sounds presumptuous but it's hard to express this while also acknowledging it's not the sole thing.
Not presumptuous at all. I always appreciate your comments especially!
I was recommended you but my first impression of you is negative simply because you paywall too aggressively
That's how it goes when writing is not a hobby but your entire income. That said, I do plan on un-paywalling some popular articles for free subscribers on a weekly basis. I was doing it for a while and it didn't seem like anyone was actually going back to read the free version, but maybe I didn't do it for long enough.