Why use the word "hate"? No, I don't "hate" children; I just want to relax in a place where children aren't allowed to run wild while their doting mothers look on. And I don't "hate" their moms unless they don't do anything to rein in their kids. And I love dogs. But an untrained dog can be just as annoying as an uncivilized child. It all comes down to having respect of others in public spaces.
I thought it was already well established that kids benefit from forming bonds with people besides their moms? I think if you asked most people about things like spending time with their grandparents or going to day camps or whatever, they would have mostly positive memories. Anybody pretending otherwise at this point really does just want motherhood to be a punishment.
I’ve never been a parent, but I have been a child. Sometimes I wonder if the people who make a big deal about anything parents do that doesn’t involve watching over their children 24/7 actually remember what it was like to be a child.
The vast majority of people have probably been, at some point, babysat or looked after by a non-parental family member or a family friend, and escaped completely unharmed. I’ve also seen people saying that parents should not allow children to go to sleepovers at all.
The chances a child will be victimized at a sleepover are slim. I’m sure many of us have been to countless sleepovers and came out unscathed.
It’s one thing not to allow someone you know to be untrustworthy to watch your children. It’s another thing to live in paranoia that grandma is secretly going to perform evil satanic rituals with your kids while you’re at work or that all of your kids’ friends’ parents are dying to molest them. The worst case scenario is just that: the worst case scenario, and we shouldn’t jump to condemn parents for the completely unrealistic goal of eliminating any and all risk in a child’s life. Parents should have some control over their children, especially when they’re young, but it’s unreasonable to expect them to be omnipotent and omniscient beings.
Your point on attachment - is it that people are saying attachment parenting is what should be done at all times, or that attachment parents are weirdos? (Genuine q, not being inflammatory and as a semi attachment parent myself won't be offended if it's the latter 😂)
I really enjoyed this post and I agree with you, people have an awful lot of opinions on how we should be raising our kids, and it's boring. I also saw this image in the week and it annoyed me because I don't really understand this gleeful approach some people (and businesses) have to excluding kids. You don't like them, fine, but why is it fun and wacky to be so hostile with it? They're literally human beings, we're literally raising the next generation, and signs like "no kids but dogs are cool lol" feel like such a massive fuck you to anyone doing the hard work of being a good parent. Also dogs suck in public spaces, I'm sorry but they're loud and disruptive and I have never seen a parent sit back and smile while their kid begs for food from another table, but I've sure as hell seen it with dog owners, and nothing annoys me more (I have a dog, I should note for full transparency. I much prefer my kids. Also she's really more my husband's dog, so we're more like disinterested roomies than pals)
Sorry to rant in your comment section, got a bit carried away
Edit: just realised that man is probably at a bar so I no longer have an issue with the no kids sign. For some reason I thought this was a coffee shop, which upset me because kids deserve to be out in public (as do their mothers) in neutral spaces. My point still stands though re gleeful hatred of children, it seems to be almost trendy at the moment to pile on about how awful kids are, but they're just little people with big feelings and they don't deserve so much public disgust thrown their way.
Agreed completely. I've had total strangers who don't have children say simply that "oh well x thing is totally abuse" as just a simple statement of fact. They aren't stating a broad academic consensus, they're just stating some snide superior notion they've heard from others, or some opinion originating from their own childhood.
When I worked as a barista, sometimes kids would come in and the parents would completely disregard them, let them dump out the card games we had everywhere, and be dismissive when I let them know that some of the games were 17+. But you know? I still think those kids deserved to be there. I would ask them gently to not mess with the products, and on some small level maybe humanize for them why you should respect public spaces. If kids make people so irritated, I genuinely think some of the onus is on them to try and just... Be nicer. That is a choice. Sometimes it's hard to reframe the screaming kid in the grocery store, but I think a lot less of people who can't see it as anything but a personal annoyance that should be removed.
I liked the cafe a lot more because it was a popular spot for families. It was annoying when kids got crumbs everywhere with reckless abandon, but I would not trade an easier job sweeping for the experience of watching families bond, kids step out of their comfort zone to order and pay, and grow as people in some small way.
YOU might not care if your kids throw crumbs everywhere, but I guarantee the person who's been on their feet for hours already, does. Why do you think a server gives a crap about "watching families bond, etc." That doesn't pay the bills, sorry.
As a retail employee, I'd much rather have a crying child walk through the store than a barking dog. A pit bull once growled at my co worker (in the store) and the owner COMPLAINED to my manager that it was the employee's fault for bothering her dog. And because I had a bad manager, she yelled at my co worker for upsetting the customer (I would have called HR, but she chose not to).
You can choose to leave your dog at home, but you can't leave your child. I don't think your toddler wants to be in a bar, and maybe not all places are really child friendly just because you decided to bring your child. Same goes for dogs. What's the expression? Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Signed, a mom of two young adults who is kind of glad I didn't have to worry about dragging my kids to a brewery back in the day, keeping them occupied while drinking.
Ok so I am proudly childfree and I have been part of this movement since moms and "get off my lawn!" were slugging it out in other forums.
Here is why pets are welcome children are not: it DOES absolutely have to do with rotten parents, who usually follow the same personality profile. I actually like and care about children. I have begun battling selfish and entitled parents.
Encounters usually go like this. Parents come in to an establishment and they have inappropriately brought a toddler where that young child does not belong.
Everyone else is trying to relax enjoy coffee liquor or live performance when the child begins to fuss as they are too young to handle the enviro and be quiet still etc.
And this is where the hate war between entitled parents and everyone else who plunked down money NOT to listen to screaming toddler begins.
I now save time go rebuke the parent. At which point they invariably unload on me. I remember being on a bus, this woman let go with such a stream of hate and abuse towards me her child who was crying cause bored stopped to listen to Mommy rip me a new one. The bus driver comes on (he had been out having a smoke) she complains about me and he incredulously says, the only one I hear yelling is YOU lady.
She was quiet the rest of her ride. Her child was distracted did something else.
Yeah it IS the parents. It is absolutely the parents. Police yourselves you will get invited back places.
The bus is not a place you're paying to enjoy coffee liqueur and live music, dweeb. She wasn't enjoying having a crying child on the bus either, and she was probably already pretty stressed by it before you humiliated her. Parents can't magically make their small children stop crying in every scenario, and on the bus, she can't even step outside with the kid. You're exactly who this article is about.
We need to stop right-coding the sentiment that the childfree are cringe
Why use the word "hate"? No, I don't "hate" children; I just want to relax in a place where children aren't allowed to run wild while their doting mothers look on. And I don't "hate" their moms unless they don't do anything to rein in their kids. And I love dogs. But an untrained dog can be just as annoying as an uncivilized child. It all comes down to having respect of others in public spaces.
I thought it was already well established that kids benefit from forming bonds with people besides their moms? I think if you asked most people about things like spending time with their grandparents or going to day camps or whatever, they would have mostly positive memories. Anybody pretending otherwise at this point really does just want motherhood to be a punishment.
I’ve never been a parent, but I have been a child. Sometimes I wonder if the people who make a big deal about anything parents do that doesn’t involve watching over their children 24/7 actually remember what it was like to be a child.
The vast majority of people have probably been, at some point, babysat or looked after by a non-parental family member or a family friend, and escaped completely unharmed. I’ve also seen people saying that parents should not allow children to go to sleepovers at all.
The chances a child will be victimized at a sleepover are slim. I’m sure many of us have been to countless sleepovers and came out unscathed.
It’s one thing not to allow someone you know to be untrustworthy to watch your children. It’s another thing to live in paranoia that grandma is secretly going to perform evil satanic rituals with your kids while you’re at work or that all of your kids’ friends’ parents are dying to molest them. The worst case scenario is just that: the worst case scenario, and we shouldn’t jump to condemn parents for the completely unrealistic goal of eliminating any and all risk in a child’s life. Parents should have some control over their children, especially when they’re young, but it’s unreasonable to expect them to be omnipotent and omniscient beings.
100%
Your point on attachment - is it that people are saying attachment parenting is what should be done at all times, or that attachment parents are weirdos? (Genuine q, not being inflammatory and as a semi attachment parent myself won't be offended if it's the latter 😂)
I really enjoyed this post and I agree with you, people have an awful lot of opinions on how we should be raising our kids, and it's boring. I also saw this image in the week and it annoyed me because I don't really understand this gleeful approach some people (and businesses) have to excluding kids. You don't like them, fine, but why is it fun and wacky to be so hostile with it? They're literally human beings, we're literally raising the next generation, and signs like "no kids but dogs are cool lol" feel like such a massive fuck you to anyone doing the hard work of being a good parent. Also dogs suck in public spaces, I'm sorry but they're loud and disruptive and I have never seen a parent sit back and smile while their kid begs for food from another table, but I've sure as hell seen it with dog owners, and nothing annoys me more (I have a dog, I should note for full transparency. I much prefer my kids. Also she's really more my husband's dog, so we're more like disinterested roomies than pals)
Sorry to rant in your comment section, got a bit carried away
Edit: just realised that man is probably at a bar so I no longer have an issue with the no kids sign. For some reason I thought this was a coffee shop, which upset me because kids deserve to be out in public (as do their mothers) in neutral spaces. My point still stands though re gleeful hatred of children, it seems to be almost trendy at the moment to pile on about how awful kids are, but they're just little people with big feelings and they don't deserve so much public disgust thrown their way.
Agreed completely. I've had total strangers who don't have children say simply that "oh well x thing is totally abuse" as just a simple statement of fact. They aren't stating a broad academic consensus, they're just stating some snide superior notion they've heard from others, or some opinion originating from their own childhood.
My parents both spent their formative years in London during the blitz, being literally bombed, and one of them still turned out well!
My general rule of thumb is to avoid any and all forums where people think they have the authority on parenting, regardless whether they have kids.
When I worked as a barista, sometimes kids would come in and the parents would completely disregard them, let them dump out the card games we had everywhere, and be dismissive when I let them know that some of the games were 17+. But you know? I still think those kids deserved to be there. I would ask them gently to not mess with the products, and on some small level maybe humanize for them why you should respect public spaces. If kids make people so irritated, I genuinely think some of the onus is on them to try and just... Be nicer. That is a choice. Sometimes it's hard to reframe the screaming kid in the grocery store, but I think a lot less of people who can't see it as anything but a personal annoyance that should be removed.
I liked the cafe a lot more because it was a popular spot for families. It was annoying when kids got crumbs everywhere with reckless abandon, but I would not trade an easier job sweeping for the experience of watching families bond, kids step out of their comfort zone to order and pay, and grow as people in some small way.
YOU might not care if your kids throw crumbs everywhere, but I guarantee the person who's been on their feet for hours already, does. Why do you think a server gives a crap about "watching families bond, etc." That doesn't pay the bills, sorry.
This person was literally saying that they were on their feet for hours a day and cared about it.
I will agree as well, when I was working 14 hour shifts I was happy to see kids come in and be kids. Those experiences 100% matter.
As a retail employee, I'd much rather have a crying child walk through the store than a barking dog. A pit bull once growled at my co worker (in the store) and the owner COMPLAINED to my manager that it was the employee's fault for bothering her dog. And because I had a bad manager, she yelled at my co worker for upsetting the customer (I would have called HR, but she chose not to).
You can choose to leave your dog at home, but you can't leave your child. I don't think your toddler wants to be in a bar, and maybe not all places are really child friendly just because you decided to bring your child. Same goes for dogs. What's the expression? Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Signed, a mom of two young adults who is kind of glad I didn't have to worry about dragging my kids to a brewery back in the day, keeping them occupied while drinking.
Ok so I am proudly childfree and I have been part of this movement since moms and "get off my lawn!" were slugging it out in other forums.
Here is why pets are welcome children are not: it DOES absolutely have to do with rotten parents, who usually follow the same personality profile. I actually like and care about children. I have begun battling selfish and entitled parents.
Encounters usually go like this. Parents come in to an establishment and they have inappropriately brought a toddler where that young child does not belong.
Everyone else is trying to relax enjoy coffee liquor or live performance when the child begins to fuss as they are too young to handle the enviro and be quiet still etc.
And this is where the hate war between entitled parents and everyone else who plunked down money NOT to listen to screaming toddler begins.
I now save time go rebuke the parent. At which point they invariably unload on me. I remember being on a bus, this woman let go with such a stream of hate and abuse towards me her child who was crying cause bored stopped to listen to Mommy rip me a new one. The bus driver comes on (he had been out having a smoke) she complains about me and he incredulously says, the only one I hear yelling is YOU lady.
She was quiet the rest of her ride. Her child was distracted did something else.
Yeah it IS the parents. It is absolutely the parents. Police yourselves you will get invited back places.
The bus is not a place you're paying to enjoy coffee liqueur and live music, dweeb. She wasn't enjoying having a crying child on the bus either, and she was probably already pretty stressed by it before you humiliated her. Parents can't magically make their small children stop crying in every scenario, and on the bus, she can't even step outside with the kid. You're exactly who this article is about.
You're pathetic
Oh and to anyone reading....
Pumping out a child means you are biologically fertile!
It doesn't automatically make you right.
It sure as heck doesn't make you superior.
When your bad behavior around your children infringes on my rights, I will not excuse you. I will rebuke you.
If you abuse me I will escalate.
No excuses!!
Get a life