Agree, You may be overestimating the extent to which these friend groups are hanging out if they really are 30 and 40 something adults with families and children. I have about 5 women I've stayed close with since high school. We do girls nights once every 3-4 months and aim for a trip together every 2-3 years. I see one or two of them between that time for coffee and minor hangouts because we live within ten minutes of each other and they help sometimes to watch my kids if my husband I and want go out, but it's definitely not an every weekend thing. I think that kind of familiarity can breed contempt if you aren't careful which probably leads to the reconfigurations, etc.
I know SAHMs who hang out with their friends multiple times a week. Their kids are in school and they don't work, so there's a lot of free time to fill.
One reason I love CHH is that she shows us truths about our lives that we might not have discovered on our own. Reading this article today, I realized for the first time in my 59 years that while I am lucky to have many wonderful friends, I, too, have never been a member of a tight group of female friends.
I also realized that I have never actually wanted to belong to such a group. In the six places I have lived, there have been women’s friend groups who have been friendly and tried to include me. But after going to one or two meetups, I would decide these groups were not for me. Maybe it’s because I, like CHH, have a brother and no sisters, but I grew up with lots of male friends. I would much rather go to a sports bar with both male and female friends to watch a game than to have intense psychological conversations over wine with a group of only women.
Which brings me to my theory: In my experience, female friend groups tend, for obvious reasons, to be much “girlier” than mixed-sex friend groups. Much as I might like individual women in the groups, activities like spa weekends, sip-and-paint evenings, Pampered Chef parties, and shopping excursions just don’t appeal to women like me.
Maybe CHH is the same? In any case, it’s ok not to belong to one of these groups. There are all kinds of ways to have and be friends.
I'm actually extremely girly, so you'd think these groups would appeal to me more! In fact, when I've belonged to friend groups, my interest in fashion and sewing and those sorts of things has been seen as a bit weird and niche, like endearingly bizarre. I think the problem is that the hyper-girly women out there tend to be more conventional and my sense of humor might not be an asset with them--not that I'm sooooo quirky or anything, but they probably wouldn't be down to get random texts pretending to be a teenage boy. The piece I wrote about my hellish work orientation featured women like this, who really just didn't find me appealing at all!
If you're friends with a bunch of people who don't know each other well... Be the connection! That's basically the way I've wound up with my own (loosely formed, co-ed) friend groups over the years. They might not become besties, but routinely planning activities with a couple people you know instead of just one can add up to a lot of social cohesion over time. (It also increases the chances they'll come to your parties if they'll know other people there.)
More importantly though imo you're overestimating how stable and committed other friend groups are. In my experience adult women outside of SaTC don't usually have weekly, exclusive brunch dates with the same three pals for decades. These friend groups form organically and degrade the same way: people get busy with work or kids, move away, or just grow apart. I feel like you're almost applying a romantic relationship's paradigm here about going the distance -- but I bet if you revisited some of the friend groups you dipped into in the past you would find they had reconfigured by now beyond just ditching you.
Well, the problem is whenever I try to invite all these people to hang out a lot of them don’t come and we’re back at my earlier issue about the parties lol
Don't start with a party! Invite two or three friends to a low stakes, conveniently located activity you think they'll like and that you want to do anyway -- for me this would be maybe a museum and a coffee or a drink after, but a nature walk, exercise class, bookstore, picnic/playground with the kids, etc. are other examples. If people get to know each other through you, and they like each other, that creates a positive feedback loop for future hangouts and larger gatherings.
OK I actually tried this exact thing last month and only one friend could come! We still had an amazing time actually, because we have some shared interests that the other two women don't have, so we got to blab about those things. But it was the holidays, so maybe at a better time they'd all have made it.
Yeah, just make a habit of inviting people -- their schedules won't overlap every time but sometimes they will. (And you can keep one-on-one hangouts in the mix too. Variety and flexibility ftw!)
Deeply revealing piece — a lot of us can identify with parts of it.
I love the idea of being more social, and sometimes I manage it, but the truth is I’m usually quite happy to be home with my husband and dogs — and my kids when they were still at home. I hate having a full calendar. I like it when I check and there is nothing at all scheduled.
But I learned the hard way (when my first marriage ended) that friends are very important. They came through for me, including the ones I’d sort of neglected.
I don’t think most people understand how debilitating OCD can be. They think it’s just wanting to have a spotless house. I used to be friends with a woman whose life was utterly ruined by it.
You’ve found your niche here, which is wonderful for all involved.
I do sometimes wonder if I'm going to become disaffected with Substack someday because so far it's the only community I've enjoyed for over a year! Hopefully not.
Don’t trust any platform! I learned that the hard way by thinking the good times on Medium (where I once made more than $30k for one story!) would just continue forever. Do other things, too.
You really need to write a book. It would be easy because you’ve already written most of it.
It is 100% because you don't really want one. I was part of a big friend group from middle and high school and NEVER did that again. I hated the social pressures and the fact that conflict with one person precludes hanging out with others.
And I am sure of this, because I'm the same way, but I enjoy being a *recurring player* in a number of friend groups.
I'm part of vague neighbor friend groups, PTO leadership, etc. and one of their friends groups.
But the issue for me is that I enjoy lots of kinds of people, have obligations to relatives, keep friendships going with different types of people, and frankly - just enjoy going to do random stuff without any friends.
Decades hence -- many decades hence! -- your friends will gather for your funeral. They'll tell stories about all the funny things you said and did, and realize that they have so much in common, they'll start meeting regularly as a group.
My friend group of 15 years cut me off and truthfully they beat me to it. We were at the point where the list of things we could talk about was the weather, food, and me listening to them complain about their husbands.
Are you sure you want that?
I was around another female group recently and it seemed like their bond was based on being cold towards each other and pointing at items of clothing guessing where the person bought it. Oh,and complaining about their husbands.
The one conversation topic I cannot deal with is about children's scheduling. Waiting lists for camps, classes, etc. OMG WHO CARES! Tell me about the funny things your kid did. Tell me about their birthday party, their favorite TV show, something else. I don't want to hear about how they're on the waiting list for the gifted and talented summer program!
My eyes glaze over with children’s schedule talks. I think you possibly have what I have, which is a chronic condition of being a normie weirdo. Not freaky enough to join certain circles but not vanilla enough to blend in with the average female group.
I relate to the “being Kate McKinnon” in a new group. I think women are initially attracted to my aura and I’m like this token fun friend there for comedic relief.
Ha! You forgot decorating! I was briefly in an all-female friend group in a NJ suburb, and week after week all they ever talked about was decorating their homes. You can only listen to so many opinions about upholstery fabric before losing your mind.
Yes. Am I supposed to be happy for you and your kitchen cabinets? In order to fit in, I am supposed to start squealing and crying over hardware choices.
I've noticed that the women who have groups of female friends tend to come from moderately socially conservative backgrounds. I don't know if this is because they have more often been socialized in gendered groups (sororities being the best example) and they retain those habits and relationships, or if there is something about maintaining large, stable social groups that for some reason aligns with other conservative tendencies (other than church, which is obvious). As for me and my generally socially liberal/libertarian friends, I can't make a group happen. At any given time, I usually have 1 to 3 close female friends, and 4 to 6 good female friends and somehow I STILL never have a group. They'll all socialize together at events I host, they like each other just fine, but there's no group.
I think you’re just rationalizing your own lack of friend group here. I’m a very liberal/progressive woman and have never had issues with friend groups with like minded women, from school to college to post-grad.
Omg yes. The person with the biggest friend group i know went to a religious university that's very homogenous racially and has very restricted set of majors. They all got married early in their friend group and had location agnostic jobs that enabled them all to move to the same neighborhood. And they go to the same church.
I think this is true for men too. I imagine it has something to do with large families being more common among the socially conservative, as well as being more used to preexisting social organizations (church, etc.) than people who are more socially liberal
I don’t think there are that many friend groups where you satc style meet week on week for dinner and plot exposition…most of my friendships have fizzled out once we moved out of a city or were no longer 23.. We still are connected but we don’t meet. I now realize my longest friendship group (since 2010) have essentially been maintained online and we all meet once in 2-3 years because we are all over the world. Even my cousins — we used to be very close when we all stayed in one big flat I think in 2016 but now we meet once a year if that. Not being in the same place continuously forever will impinge on group dynamics.
There are though, you really see this once you have kids because SAHMs can be like this. I am friends with moms who hang out multiple times a week, watch each other kids, do weekly volunteer work together, constantly drop by. They have way more free time than many others do and thus more involved friendships.
Ah well again then it’s a matter of time and priorities. I work too hard to be able to give so much time. And while I genuinely enjoy my friends’ company I’m happy to meet them once in few months or once a year.
Yup, if you have a lot of free time, it's much easier and you're looking to fill time. I work a lot, but now that my husband works until late and I'm watching my kids alone for hours per day, I prioritize hanging out with other adults more and meeting up with other parents / kids.
You're not autistic, but you're clearly neurodivergent (a majority of prolific Internet writers are neurodivergent). What you're describing is an extremely common experience for neurodivergent people who learn social skills (speaking from personal experience): you learn how to read other people's emotional states, make people laugh, remember their personal details, etc. And it works! You are now getting invitations.
But while this will make you well-liked in superficial interactions, there is often a wall when it comes to building really deep relationships or for seamlessly integrating into a group dynamic. While one can definitely improve learning social cues, the reality is that there is a long tail of microsocial cues in every social interaction. And in order to get *those* cues right, there is no substitute for being neurotypical---for having the same underlying cognitive wiring as the person you are interacting with. Over time, the small, subtle imperceptible differences in your social presentation creates a build-up of tension. And it either ends with you leaving (because you notice that people don't seem to laugh at your jokes anymore) or you with you getting ousted.
A really funny and honest article. I enjoyed reading it. The one thing I’ll say, as someone who is reasonably gregarious person, is that in my experience friend groups are far more mutable than they might appear from the outside. They grow, contract, expel and absorb members, and sometimes just fade out. One group I was a part of splintered dramatically over a friend break up. Watching this happen taught me to not put all of my social eggs in one basket!
I think some of the women constantly spending time with other women in groups have marriages where there is little overlap in interest between themselves and their husbands. Which is totally fine, I’ve met some really happy couples without much in common apart from being attracted to each other and their kids. If I was in that situation I imagine I’d want other people to talk about stuff and bond with. For me, I think my husband just fulfills a lot of those needs and then my disparate friendships are with people I genuinely like being with and share similar interests (and vice versa, I hope). You will never feel fulfilled with a group of women you’re spending time with for the sake of being in a group.
This is also a really good point. Though for me it's not that my husband specifically fulfils the needs of friends, but more like, we share our common social activities to the point that we have most of the same friends and it's not gender segregated. My friends are like overlapping circles rather than a solid group or fully individual.
I think the gender segregated groups might be becoming less common where I am at least.
Omg this is so relatable and I’m saying this as someone who’s polar opposite of you - a guy who’s been very good at making friends while horrendous at finding romantic partners.
I have been that guy who played a role of clown to infiltrate into friend group at college or after while being extremely vigilant about any source of annoyance of others in the group and trying to preempt any conflicts. (In fact these two sometimes combined and I literally apologized to a guy in dogeza style for another guy throwing up on him at a party. And I didn’t not know either of them but the sight of a guy being mad was sooo triggering for me…..)
And I would just say, I am the weirdo who’s too used to all this and it def has hurt me from developing any cues to have a successful romantic relationship for a long time - so I think there’s def a trade off lol
I don’t have a group of friends, which I used to feel sad / embarrassed about, but I’ve just come to realise that I prefer being friends with one person at a time. I very rarely mix friends as it makes me feel super uncomfortable. I also don’t really like group activities- Id never go on a hen weekend and really hate weddings. My husband jokes that the only he’ll see all my in the same place is my funeral, which is funny because he’s obviously going to die before me.
I think a lot of the 'friend group' dynamic is build on having a specific shared past experience. I have a work friend group and a LOT of our talk is about...work! It's an easy default topic to fall back on, but at the same time, yes, talking about work so much can be tedious.
That's true but I also think it's not really that hard to integrate people without that history if you make an effort. A buddy of mine from college had a pretty strong and active friend group of people he knew from school previously, none of whom I knew at the time, but he just invited me along to their parties and hangouts and I became integrated into that group as a result.
Similarly, one of my college friends married a guy from a completely different background, with zero shared history with any of us, but he's become a central part of the friend group too. I think some point of history often serves as an origin for a group but if a group has an open attitude to making new friends, there's no reason it has to stay like that, although I am aware also that there are groups that are a lot more defensive and default to resisting new people as untrustworthy interlopers too, and befriending someone in a group like this is sort of a social dead end.
Being specific comes at the expense of being universal, in art as well as life. What people love about CHH is that it’s niche; a community of misfits identifying with a fellow traveler. I send CHH to my wife saying “she’s you”. But I’d never send her to a group chat saying “everyone will relate”. The irony of comedy is that it’s best when it’s specific. Comedians hate the universal, influencer adjacent, Kevin Hart/Dane Cook types. They revere the journeyman weirdo with 200 psychos who love them. They admire specificity. But you can’t be specific and universal simultaneously, at least not comfortably for the long haul. That’s why you have no group. 😬
Agree, You may be overestimating the extent to which these friend groups are hanging out if they really are 30 and 40 something adults with families and children. I have about 5 women I've stayed close with since high school. We do girls nights once every 3-4 months and aim for a trip together every 2-3 years. I see one or two of them between that time for coffee and minor hangouts because we live within ten minutes of each other and they help sometimes to watch my kids if my husband I and want go out, but it's definitely not an every weekend thing. I think that kind of familiarity can breed contempt if you aren't careful which probably leads to the reconfigurations, etc.
I know SAHMs who hang out with their friends multiple times a week. Their kids are in school and they don't work, so there's a lot of free time to fill.
So envious of this. I’m a SAHM with kids in school, but I don’t know any other SAHMs.
(Also, I don’t really have a lot of free time to fill, because our house looks like a tornado swept through, no exaggeration.)
One reason I love CHH is that she shows us truths about our lives that we might not have discovered on our own. Reading this article today, I realized for the first time in my 59 years that while I am lucky to have many wonderful friends, I, too, have never been a member of a tight group of female friends.
I also realized that I have never actually wanted to belong to such a group. In the six places I have lived, there have been women’s friend groups who have been friendly and tried to include me. But after going to one or two meetups, I would decide these groups were not for me. Maybe it’s because I, like CHH, have a brother and no sisters, but I grew up with lots of male friends. I would much rather go to a sports bar with both male and female friends to watch a game than to have intense psychological conversations over wine with a group of only women.
Which brings me to my theory: In my experience, female friend groups tend, for obvious reasons, to be much “girlier” than mixed-sex friend groups. Much as I might like individual women in the groups, activities like spa weekends, sip-and-paint evenings, Pampered Chef parties, and shopping excursions just don’t appeal to women like me.
Maybe CHH is the same? In any case, it’s ok not to belong to one of these groups. There are all kinds of ways to have and be friends.
I'm actually extremely girly, so you'd think these groups would appeal to me more! In fact, when I've belonged to friend groups, my interest in fashion and sewing and those sorts of things has been seen as a bit weird and niche, like endearingly bizarre. I think the problem is that the hyper-girly women out there tend to be more conventional and my sense of humor might not be an asset with them--not that I'm sooooo quirky or anything, but they probably wouldn't be down to get random texts pretending to be a teenage boy. The piece I wrote about my hellish work orientation featured women like this, who really just didn't find me appealing at all!
Well, just speaking for myself, I think they are missing out! You are very appealing to so many of us!
Thank you ❤️❤️❤️ you sound lovely!
YES it's like: women with our interests are the kind to say "That's so funny" instead of laughing at something.
If you're friends with a bunch of people who don't know each other well... Be the connection! That's basically the way I've wound up with my own (loosely formed, co-ed) friend groups over the years. They might not become besties, but routinely planning activities with a couple people you know instead of just one can add up to a lot of social cohesion over time. (It also increases the chances they'll come to your parties if they'll know other people there.)
More importantly though imo you're overestimating how stable and committed other friend groups are. In my experience adult women outside of SaTC don't usually have weekly, exclusive brunch dates with the same three pals for decades. These friend groups form organically and degrade the same way: people get busy with work or kids, move away, or just grow apart. I feel like you're almost applying a romantic relationship's paradigm here about going the distance -- but I bet if you revisited some of the friend groups you dipped into in the past you would find they had reconfigured by now beyond just ditching you.
Well, the problem is whenever I try to invite all these people to hang out a lot of them don’t come and we’re back at my earlier issue about the parties lol
Don't start with a party! Invite two or three friends to a low stakes, conveniently located activity you think they'll like and that you want to do anyway -- for me this would be maybe a museum and a coffee or a drink after, but a nature walk, exercise class, bookstore, picnic/playground with the kids, etc. are other examples. If people get to know each other through you, and they like each other, that creates a positive feedback loop for future hangouts and larger gatherings.
OK I actually tried this exact thing last month and only one friend could come! We still had an amazing time actually, because we have some shared interests that the other two women don't have, so we got to blab about those things. But it was the holidays, so maybe at a better time they'd all have made it.
Yeah, just make a habit of inviting people -- their schedules won't overlap every time but sometimes they will. (And you can keep one-on-one hangouts in the mix too. Variety and flexibility ftw!)
Deeply revealing piece — a lot of us can identify with parts of it.
I love the idea of being more social, and sometimes I manage it, but the truth is I’m usually quite happy to be home with my husband and dogs — and my kids when they were still at home. I hate having a full calendar. I like it when I check and there is nothing at all scheduled.
But I learned the hard way (when my first marriage ended) that friends are very important. They came through for me, including the ones I’d sort of neglected.
I don’t think most people understand how debilitating OCD can be. They think it’s just wanting to have a spotless house. I used to be friends with a woman whose life was utterly ruined by it.
You’ve found your niche here, which is wonderful for all involved.
I do sometimes wonder if I'm going to become disaffected with Substack someday because so far it's the only community I've enjoyed for over a year! Hopefully not.
Don’t trust any platform! I learned that the hard way by thinking the good times on Medium (where I once made more than $30k for one story!) would just continue forever. Do other things, too.
You really need to write a book. It would be easy because you’ve already written most of it.
Working on it! The publishing industry is not known for its quickness lol
It is 100% because you don't really want one. I was part of a big friend group from middle and high school and NEVER did that again. I hated the social pressures and the fact that conflict with one person precludes hanging out with others.
And I am sure of this, because I'm the same way, but I enjoy being a *recurring player* in a number of friend groups.
I'm part of vague neighbor friend groups, PTO leadership, etc. and one of their friends groups.
But the issue for me is that I enjoy lots of kinds of people, have obligations to relatives, keep friendships going with different types of people, and frankly - just enjoy going to do random stuff without any friends.
Decades hence -- many decades hence! -- your friends will gather for your funeral. They'll tell stories about all the funny things you said and did, and realize that they have so much in common, they'll start meeting regularly as a group.
My friend group of 15 years cut me off and truthfully they beat me to it. We were at the point where the list of things we could talk about was the weather, food, and me listening to them complain about their husbands.
Are you sure you want that?
I was around another female group recently and it seemed like their bond was based on being cold towards each other and pointing at items of clothing guessing where the person bought it. Oh,and complaining about their husbands.
The one conversation topic I cannot deal with is about children's scheduling. Waiting lists for camps, classes, etc. OMG WHO CARES! Tell me about the funny things your kid did. Tell me about their birthday party, their favorite TV show, something else. I don't want to hear about how they're on the waiting list for the gifted and talented summer program!
My eyes glaze over with children’s schedule talks. I think you possibly have what I have, which is a chronic condition of being a normie weirdo. Not freaky enough to join certain circles but not vanilla enough to blend in with the average female group.
I relate to the “being Kate McKinnon” in a new group. I think women are initially attracted to my aura and I’m like this token fun friend there for comedic relief.
But yes, disposable.
This I don't mind because figuring out and gaming systems is a thing I'm good at, so I can help with that stuff.
Where I struggle is stuff like everyone talking about reading or listening to romance novels and I have ZERO to say.
Ha! You forgot decorating! I was briefly in an all-female friend group in a NJ suburb, and week after week all they ever talked about was decorating their homes. You can only listen to so many opinions about upholstery fabric before losing your mind.
Yes. Am I supposed to be happy for you and your kitchen cabinets? In order to fit in, I am supposed to start squealing and crying over hardware choices.
Decorating isn't super interesting but I can talk about it or express interest in it.
I recently got trapped in a birthday party conversation about getting out red wine stains.
Laundry chemistry is always a good topic. How did they get the stains out?
I'll be honest, my energy went into looking interested.
They discovered a specific product that gets red wine out of white furniture, but I can't recall it.
Been there. Exhausted from looking interested.
I've noticed that the women who have groups of female friends tend to come from moderately socially conservative backgrounds. I don't know if this is because they have more often been socialized in gendered groups (sororities being the best example) and they retain those habits and relationships, or if there is something about maintaining large, stable social groups that for some reason aligns with other conservative tendencies (other than church, which is obvious). As for me and my generally socially liberal/libertarian friends, I can't make a group happen. At any given time, I usually have 1 to 3 close female friends, and 4 to 6 good female friends and somehow I STILL never have a group. They'll all socialize together at events I host, they like each other just fine, but there's no group.
I think you’re just rationalizing your own lack of friend group here. I’m a very liberal/progressive woman and have never had issues with friend groups with like minded women, from school to college to post-grad.
It's possible. I also might be wrong in thinking there has to be some sort of "group magic" instead of just repeated shared experiences.
> libertarians
Well there's your problem lol. We're notoriously isolationist. (Ironically I just mistyped "libertarians" as "lonertarians")
Omg yes. The person with the biggest friend group i know went to a religious university that's very homogenous racially and has very restricted set of majors. They all got married early in their friend group and had location agnostic jobs that enabled them all to move to the same neighborhood. And they go to the same church.
I think this is true for men too. I imagine it has something to do with large families being more common among the socially conservative, as well as being more used to preexisting social organizations (church, etc.) than people who are more socially liberal
I don’t think there are that many friend groups where you satc style meet week on week for dinner and plot exposition…most of my friendships have fizzled out once we moved out of a city or were no longer 23.. We still are connected but we don’t meet. I now realize my longest friendship group (since 2010) have essentially been maintained online and we all meet once in 2-3 years because we are all over the world. Even my cousins — we used to be very close when we all stayed in one big flat I think in 2016 but now we meet once a year if that. Not being in the same place continuously forever will impinge on group dynamics.
There are though, you really see this once you have kids because SAHMs can be like this. I am friends with moms who hang out multiple times a week, watch each other kids, do weekly volunteer work together, constantly drop by. They have way more free time than many others do and thus more involved friendships.
Ah well again then it’s a matter of time and priorities. I work too hard to be able to give so much time. And while I genuinely enjoy my friends’ company I’m happy to meet them once in few months or once a year.
Yup, if you have a lot of free time, it's much easier and you're looking to fill time. I work a lot, but now that my husband works until late and I'm watching my kids alone for hours per day, I prioritize hanging out with other adults more and meeting up with other parents / kids.
You're not autistic, but you're clearly neurodivergent (a majority of prolific Internet writers are neurodivergent). What you're describing is an extremely common experience for neurodivergent people who learn social skills (speaking from personal experience): you learn how to read other people's emotional states, make people laugh, remember their personal details, etc. And it works! You are now getting invitations.
But while this will make you well-liked in superficial interactions, there is often a wall when it comes to building really deep relationships or for seamlessly integrating into a group dynamic. While one can definitely improve learning social cues, the reality is that there is a long tail of microsocial cues in every social interaction. And in order to get *those* cues right, there is no substitute for being neurotypical---for having the same underlying cognitive wiring as the person you are interacting with. Over time, the small, subtle imperceptible differences in your social presentation creates a build-up of tension. And it either ends with you leaving (because you notice that people don't seem to laugh at your jokes anymore) or you with you getting ousted.
A really funny and honest article. I enjoyed reading it. The one thing I’ll say, as someone who is reasonably gregarious person, is that in my experience friend groups are far more mutable than they might appear from the outside. They grow, contract, expel and absorb members, and sometimes just fade out. One group I was a part of splintered dramatically over a friend break up. Watching this happen taught me to not put all of my social eggs in one basket!
I think some of the women constantly spending time with other women in groups have marriages where there is little overlap in interest between themselves and their husbands. Which is totally fine, I’ve met some really happy couples without much in common apart from being attracted to each other and their kids. If I was in that situation I imagine I’d want other people to talk about stuff and bond with. For me, I think my husband just fulfills a lot of those needs and then my disparate friendships are with people I genuinely like being with and share similar interests (and vice versa, I hope). You will never feel fulfilled with a group of women you’re spending time with for the sake of being in a group.
This is also a really good point. Though for me it's not that my husband specifically fulfils the needs of friends, but more like, we share our common social activities to the point that we have most of the same friends and it's not gender segregated. My friends are like overlapping circles rather than a solid group or fully individual.
I think the gender segregated groups might be becoming less common where I am at least.
Omg this is so relatable and I’m saying this as someone who’s polar opposite of you - a guy who’s been very good at making friends while horrendous at finding romantic partners.
I have been that guy who played a role of clown to infiltrate into friend group at college or after while being extremely vigilant about any source of annoyance of others in the group and trying to preempt any conflicts. (In fact these two sometimes combined and I literally apologized to a guy in dogeza style for another guy throwing up on him at a party. And I didn’t not know either of them but the sight of a guy being mad was sooo triggering for me…..)
And I would just say, I am the weirdo who’s too used to all this and it def has hurt me from developing any cues to have a successful romantic relationship for a long time - so I think there’s def a trade off lol
I don’t have a group of friends, which I used to feel sad / embarrassed about, but I’ve just come to realise that I prefer being friends with one person at a time. I very rarely mix friends as it makes me feel super uncomfortable. I also don’t really like group activities- Id never go on a hen weekend and really hate weddings. My husband jokes that the only he’ll see all my in the same place is my funeral, which is funny because he’s obviously going to die before me.
Also when trying to explain my lack of friend group I always feel like https://youtu.be/N__AkJriaN4
I think a lot of the 'friend group' dynamic is build on having a specific shared past experience. I have a work friend group and a LOT of our talk is about...work! It's an easy default topic to fall back on, but at the same time, yes, talking about work so much can be tedious.
That's true but I also think it's not really that hard to integrate people without that history if you make an effort. A buddy of mine from college had a pretty strong and active friend group of people he knew from school previously, none of whom I knew at the time, but he just invited me along to their parties and hangouts and I became integrated into that group as a result.
Similarly, one of my college friends married a guy from a completely different background, with zero shared history with any of us, but he's become a central part of the friend group too. I think some point of history often serves as an origin for a group but if a group has an open attitude to making new friends, there's no reason it has to stay like that, although I am aware also that there are groups that are a lot more defensive and default to resisting new people as untrustworthy interlopers too, and befriending someone in a group like this is sort of a social dead end.
Being specific comes at the expense of being universal, in art as well as life. What people love about CHH is that it’s niche; a community of misfits identifying with a fellow traveler. I send CHH to my wife saying “she’s you”. But I’d never send her to a group chat saying “everyone will relate”. The irony of comedy is that it’s best when it’s specific. Comedians hate the universal, influencer adjacent, Kevin Hart/Dane Cook types. They revere the journeyman weirdo with 200 psychos who love them. They admire specificity. But you can’t be specific and universal simultaneously, at least not comfortably for the long haul. That’s why you have no group. 😬