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Polytropos's avatar

This morning, I was talking with my wife about Ally Louks/“Dr. Smells” discourse, and we agreed that there wouldn’t have been even 1/1,000th of the backlash if Louks wasn’t attractive.

Ultimately, a lot of these angry chuds’ real fundamental resentment is that they feel attracted to women who post pictures and videos of themselves online, but no woman who looks like that in the real world would ever fuck them unless they paid a significant amount for it, and it frustrates them.

Because acknowledging what’s really going on would make them feel bad about themselves, they sublimate their feelings into these elaborate conspiratorial political ideologies and fantasies about how the economy works.

Honestly makes me miss the version of the manosphere that was like pick-up artist types. They were cringey and manipulative, but they at least encouraged these guys to try to address the thing they’re really frustrated about by working to get better at attracting women and meeting them in the real world.

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Ben's avatar
Mar 14Edited

I work with a lot of young men in tech (think male, mid-20s coder from a top 20ish CS school at their first coding job) and this hits the nail on the head. Scratch the surface of their general belief structure and you'll find some of the most reactionary politics you've ever seen. What can trip people up is these folks don't identify as conservative, or even political. They'll describe themselves as "moderates" or "centrists" and typically say they aren't particularly political or express anodyne "all politicians are crooks" views. But, get them talking about political issues, and you'll get real 4chan level stuff. Things like "Taylor Swift is a bad role model for girls because she's in her 30s and unmarried without kids." I have heard variations of this from multiple young men in tech.

I started noticing this in 2023 because as a recovering debate asshole I'll happily talk politics with anyone. They don't lead with gender dynamics because they absolutely know how toxic their beliefs are. You have to work your way there but once you do, it quickly becomes clear that the gender politics (and sometimes but not always racial politics) is the root.

There is a lot of interesting things I could say about the rest of their political belief structure, how it is philosophically incoherent and seems optimized to make arguments against straw men that you might find in a 3rd tier conservative political commentator video. But the more interesting question for the purposes of this comment is how did this develop.

On some level, young men in tech having somewhat reactionary politics isn't surprising. When I was a young man in tech I had pretty terrible politics (exacerbated by the aforementioned debate asshole stuff), but this feels stickier. 25 year-old me wouldn't have actually voted for Trump.

My sense is a lot of these guys were sold on a vision of their CS degree unlocking massive wealth straight out of undergrad, and then graduated into a big tech job market that was pretty hostile to young coders. These guys already had some built in gender resentment from going through college during what they might call "peak woke" and so the reaction to the down job market is actually about women taking those plum jobs they thought they deserved. Feeding into all of this is the sexual resentment that CHH describes, and I suspect a lot of this is downstream of Covid. Folks in their mid-20s lost part or all of the important college and immediately post-college socialization experience to lockdowns. Losing multiple years in this critical period does not help romantic/sexual success, and for our stereotypical nerdy CS guy...well they need all the help they can get. Moreover, without the in-person socialization experience I suspect the social benefits from having more women in your classes and/or new employee cohort is very easy to miss.

Sitting along side this is the mainstreaming of much more radical gender commentators. In 2015 your mainstream anti-feminists were folks like Christa Hoff Sommers, maybe you had exposure to some really noxious folks like Milo through gamer gate, but if you wanted "red pill"/incel content you had to go seek that out or 4chan or other niche forums. Now its just kinda everywhere online as CHH helpfully demonstrates with all of those tweets. All of this feeds into a noxious set of politics especially around gender relations which...isn't exactly helping romantically. Maybe these guys will eventually find their stay at home mother of 5 kids (because they are very concerned about birth rates and need to do their part!), but I'm very concerned about how this develops over the next decade.

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